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08:06 < adiabat> there *is* a proposal to do block-wide signatiure aggregation
08:06 < adiabat> it's ... got issues though :/
08:07 < adiabat> the way it would work size-wise is that every signature in the block would be cut in half, into 2 32-byte parts
08:07 < adiabat> one 32-byte part would remain, and the other 32-byte part of every signature would be combined and committed to in the coinbase tx by the miner
08:07 < andytoshi> aj: sigs are 64 bytes. with signature aggregation they can all be reduced to 32 bytes with an additional 32-byte aggregate
08:08 < adiabat> it works mathematically; the problem is caching
08:08 < andytoshi> right, what adiabat said also applies to the interactive scheme
08:08 < adiabat> with interactive & schnorr (or BN signatures I think) the whole thing turns in to 64 bytes
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08:11 < andytoshi> no, that's true for multisignatures but not for aggregation (which works with multiple messages that have distinct pubkeys)
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08:12 < adiabat> I'm not clear on the different terms here
08:13 < adiabat> for bitcoin's use case, an interactive siganture aggregation within one transaction would have one signauture for the whole tx
08:13 < adiabat> so yeah they're all signing the same message
08:13 < adiabat> with a bunch of different pubkeys
08:13 < andytoshi> no
08:13 < adiabat> that can all go into 64 bytes
08:13 < andytoshi> that is not signature aggregation
08:13 < adiabat> ok what do you call that?
08:13 < andytoshi> i would call that a multisignature
08:14 < adiabat> and signature aggregation is for multiple messages?
08:14 < andytoshi> it supports multiple messages, yes, but it's also for separate pubkeys that aren't assumed to have been chosen non-maliciously
08:15 < andytoshi> doing a multisig like you describe requires more interaction and is much harder to do securely if there are malicious signers
08:15 < adiabat> multisignature also works with pubkeys that aren't known beforehand
08:15 < andytoshi> not securely it doesn't
08:16 < adiabat> hm... I may again be using different terms but
08:16 < adiabat> e.g https://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~mihir/papers/multisignatures-ccs.pdf
08:17 < adiabat> which is what people are basing the the multisignature work for bitcoin on
08:17 < andytoshi> adiabat: yes, that is signature aggregation
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08:17 < andytoshi> adiabat: yes, i am one of those "people", i wrote the first implementation of signature aggregation
08:18 < andytoshi> the authors use the term "multisignature" for what we are terming "signature aggregation" because we're using it to aggregate what would otherwise be separate signatures
08:18 < adiabat> ok wait ... signature aggrregation = multiple messages, multiple pubkeys
08:18 < andytoshi> yes
08:18 < adiabat> multisignature = 1 message, multiple pubkeys
08:18 < andytoshi> i use that term to mean 1 message, 1 pubkey (well, from the verifier's perspective)
08:19 < adiabat> ohhhh
08:19 < adiabat> OK I think sipa was using the term "key aggregation" for that
08:19 < andytoshi> ah, yeah, that's right
08:19 < adiabat> though acutally I don't think people were clear on what to call it :)
08:19 < andytoshi> i think "multisignature" we'll probably just have to taboo
08:20 < adiabat> yeah we should write up what the different scenarios are and the right terms for them
08:20 < andytoshi> yeah, i know..
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08:31 < Beginer> fuck all
08:32 < Beginer> https://blockchain.info/payment_request?address=3D2oetdNuZUqQHPJmcMDDHYoqkyNVsFk9r&message=Please+a+need+this+money,+every+day+is+very+difficult+to+me.+Please+help-me+a+need+to+give+money+for+my+family.+I+do+anything+for+this+%0A&amount=1
08:32 < Beginer> https://blockchain.info/payment_request?address=3D2oetdNuZUqQHPJmcMDDHYoqkyNVsFk9r&message=Please+a+need+this+money,+every+day+is+very+difficult+to+me.+Please+help-me+a+need+to+give+money+for+my+family.+I+do+anything+for+this+%0A&amount=1
08:32 < Beginer> 3JfyCAuEskY8zWwBHM8HVUfp8UGLfdzKX6
08:32 < Beginer> 3JfyCAuEskY8zWwBHM8HVUfp8UGLfdzKX6
08:32 < Beginer> 3JfyCAuEskY8zWwBHM8HVUfp8UGLfdzKX6
08:32 < Beginer> 3JfyCAuEskY8zWwBHM8HVUfp8UGLfdzKX6
08:33 < Beginer> 3JfyCAuEskY8zWwBHM8HVUfp8UGLfdzKX6
08:33 < Beginer> 3JfyCAuEskY8zWwBHM8HVUfp8UGLfdzKX6
08:33 < Beginer> 3JfyCAuEskY8zWwBHM8HVUfp8UGLfdzKX6
08:33 < Beginer> 3JfyCAuEskY8zWwBHM8HVUfp8UGLfdzKX6
08:33 < Beginer> 3JfyCAuEskY8zWwBHM8HVUfp8UGLfdzKX6
08:33 < Beginer> 3JfyCAuEskY8zWwBHM8HVUfp8UGLfdzKX6
08:33 < Beginer> please
08:33 < Beginer> 3JfyCAuEskY8zWwBHM8HVUfp8UGLfdzKX6
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08:42 < newbie> hm
08:42 < newbie> please..
08:42 < newbie> stop spamming
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09:22  * adlai is reminded of the one about the young student who approaches professor before exam, alone, at night; pledges to do anything, anything at all, just to pass the exam; quoth the prof: "Would you... study?"
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14:24 < fluffypony> hey the beggers are using multisig
14:25 < fluffypony> it's a new world!
14:25 < sipa> ?
14:28 < fluffypony> sipa: the spam from "Beginer" earlier
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15:04 < belcher> could just be segwit
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15:22 < asaaq13> hi
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16:48  * charutocafe[m] sent a long message: charutocafe[m]_2017-08-29_23:48:20.txt <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/tNRpqibOlxlqxXgMuZHQqApm>
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17:30 < eddiewang> i would like to apologize if i've been connecting on and off recently... just got irssi and tmuxed it to my vps so shouldn't happen as much anymore
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23:48 < nopara73> Would you take a look at my fungibility proposal, ZeroLink: https://github.com/nopara73/ZeroLink/
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 30 00:00:04 2017