--- Log opened Wed Sep 13 00:00:01 2017
--- Day changed Wed Sep 13 2017
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13:45 < Chris_Stewart_5> Has there been any discussion around creating  an op code that makes sure a transaction is included in the blockchain before block height n else the tx is invalid
13:46 < betawaffle> i had asked about that, and people had good reasons not to support that
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13:46 < sipa> generally the principle is that a valid transaction can never be invalidated
13:46 < Chris_Stewart_5> Can you remember any of them?
13:46 < betawaffle> ^^
13:46 < sipa> there are a few reasons for that
13:46 < sipa> 1) a practical one: it would require re-evaluating the entire mempool's scripts after every block
13:47 < Chris_Stewart_5> sipa: In the eyes of Script right? Obviously that doesn't apply at the tx level, i.e. double spends
13:47 < sipa> 2) fungibility: accepting a transaction that is close to expiring should make your wallet extra cautious about spending, as a reorg - even without any malicious intent - may invalidate every transaction that depends on it
13:48 < gmaxwell> Chris_Stewart_5: it means that no innocent reorg (from a block race) will forever invalidate any transactions that were previously valid.
13:48 < sipa> Chris_Stewart_5: right, but a double spend is easy to evaluate... you only need to look at transactions that affect the same inputs
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13:48 < sipa> Chris_Stewart_5: if it's a script opcode, you have no choice but to completely reevaluate all scripts
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13:49 < sipa> if there was something like nLockTime for expiration (and perhaps an opcode to observe that nExpire transaction flag), that problem wouldn't exist
13:49 < sipa> but the fungibility argument remains
13:49 < kanzure> wasn't this the one with reorg problems
13:49 < kanzure> ah someone mentioned as much. fine.
13:50 < kanzure> known defense is to only allow blockhashes that are super old
13:50 < sipa> the nLockTime/OP_CLTV and nSequence/OP_CSV was specifically used to avoid the need for re-evaluation
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13:50 < sipa> as opposed to opcodes that can directly observe the time, they can only observe the transaction itself, so they're either valid or invalid
13:50 < sipa> without a time dependency
13:50 < Chris_Stewart_5> interesting, so '>' is the only comparison you can make without re-evaluating right?
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13:51 < Chris_Stewart_5> maybe '!='?
13:51 < Chris_Stewart_5> but I don't know what use that would have..
13:51 < kanzure> OP_CHECKBLOCKATHEIGHT https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0115.mediawiki https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-September/013161.html
13:51 < sipa> right, the reason for only having '>' is so that valid transaction can never become invalid
13:51 < sipa> (apart from their inputs being spent from under them)
13:51 < kanzure> or er, OP_CHECKBLOCKHASH
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13:53 < Chris_Stewart_5> Thanks guys!
13:53 < sipa> yw
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 14 00:00:17 2017