--- Log opened Sat Sep 30 00:00:32 2017
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03:58 < gmaxwell> maaku:  minor enhancement to your monopolistc price softforks, let hte miner include whatever txn they want, and set the price to whatever they want... then all fees over that price must be rebated per your proposal, and all under must be paid by the miner..  I think this would make certian activities people could do anyways much more efficient.
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09:41 < maaku> I'm not sure how that's different...?
09:42 < maaku> The miner would still have to credit/pay as if they had set the price to the minimum
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09:42 < maaku> Or else we're talking about something quite different
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16:31 < Taek> oh that's really interesting
16:32 < Taek> gmaxwell: how does that interact with out-of-band fees? Seems to me at first glance like it does a lot to discourage them
16:32 < Taek> b/c if you pay oob fees, you can't get any rebate for them.
16:33 < Taek> and, the miner has to expose that they are collecting oob fees b/c they'll need to supplement the low-fee on-chain txn to get them into the block
16:33 < gmaxwell> well the monopoly pricing create a distinctive equlibrium where large miners should prefer to take _all_ fees out of band.
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16:33 < gmaxwell> The intent of my proposed change would be to eliminate the all or nothing, which indeed make it more clear.
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17:00 < Taek> if I understand the scheme fully, it encourages the miners to prefer taking all fees oob, but it encourages users to pay all fees on-chain using the mechanism that could get them a discount
17:00 < Taek> and if a miner is unable to take certain fees oob, then they have to sacrifice all potential revenue from users that are using on-chain fees
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17:06 < Taek> I guess you could end up with an equilibrium where X% of blocks are fully oob, and then the rest are on-chain fees
17:06 < Taek> but then if you are paying oob, you know you can only get into blocks X% of the time
17:06 < Taek> well, same with on-chain too. If oob is >>50%, then it's probably something that would perpetuate
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17:14 < techguy305> hey
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18:54 < maaku> gmaxwell: I'm not sure why you're not seeing the all-or-nothing as an advantage, not a weakness. that's the argument from the other side -- it discourages out of band fees existing alongside regular fees
18:55 < maaku> you build a block containing either one or the other -- regular fees or out-of-band-payments. not both. not some of each.
18:56 < maaku> and in that model, it's the user incentive not to do out of band fees, because that only works if everyone does it, and if everyone does it it is strictly worse (because no rebates) than if everyone used regular fees
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23:11 < luke-jr> maaku: updated the BIP draft & code with your suggestions BTW
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--- Log closed Sun Oct 01 00:00:33 2017