--- Log opened Sat Sep 30 00:00:32 2017 00:04 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@c-73-170-224-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: oleganza] 00:09 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-176-255-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@080-250-076-116-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:15 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:19 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:20 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cnliafhqrovfiafg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 00:24 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@unaffiliated/alina-malina] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:26 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@unaffiliated/alina-malina] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:36 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:54 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:55 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@unaffiliated/alina-malina] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:59 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@unaffiliated/alina-malina] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:20 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 02:58 -!- coinsmurf [~packet@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:26 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@p200300ED83CA38005112CC7FB2F8ED7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:58 < gmaxwell> maaku: minor enhancement to your monopolistc price softforks, let hte miner include whatever txn they want, and set the price to whatever they want... then all fees over that price must be rebated per your proposal, and all under must be paid by the miner.. I think this would make certian activities people could do anyways much more efficient. 04:16 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:25 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:53 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:29 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@p200300ED83CA3800AC9BCCA14258DFA9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:37 -!- smk [d18015a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.128.21.162] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:45 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sflaaucuodbvypgx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 05:47 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ydntzpfzyylumhmg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:23 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@p200300ED83CA3800AC9BCCA14258DFA9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:24 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@p200300ED83CA3800AC9BCCA14258DFA9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:27 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:46 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:49 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:50 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:01 -!- leonidaz0r [~leonidaz0@2a02:aa16:3a81:7a80:a00:27ff:fe9f:b49] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 07:35 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:37 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-47-85-226.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:40 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:46 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [] 07:55 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ydntzpfzyylumhmg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:04 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:04 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:12 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:21 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:23 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:25 -!- StopAndDecrypt_ [StopAndDec@ip98-164-115-63.no.no.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:28 -!- leonidaz0r [~leonidaz0@2a02:aa16:3a81:7a80:a00:27ff:fe9f:b49] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:32 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:35 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:45 -!- sn0wmonster [~yeti@taskhive/lead/sn0wmonster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:15 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:41 < maaku> I'm not sure how that's different...? 09:42 < maaku> The miner would still have to credit/pay as if they had set the price to the minimum 09:42 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:42 < maaku> Or else we're talking about something quite different 09:45 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 09:47 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:25 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:35 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:45 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:47 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-204-28-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:53 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: .] 10:55 -!- onabreak [55e4c13c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.228.193.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:56 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:57 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:58 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-204-28-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:06 -!- brianhoffman [~brianhoff@pool-96-231-163-68.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:07 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:10 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:38 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:57 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:57 -!- pr0zac- [pr0zac@209.130-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:59 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:02 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dspfeirynbbvhzpx] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:02 -!- nabu [~jm@212.92.104.154] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:02 -!- nabu [~jm@212.92.104.154] has quit [Client Quit] 12:04 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:05 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 12:12 -!- StopAndDecrypt_ [StopAndDec@ip98-164-115-63.no.no.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:43 -!- vicenteH` [~user@93.104.135.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:45 -!- vicenteH [~user@93.104.135.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04 -!- brianhoffman [~brianhoff@pool-96-231-163-68.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:18 -!- pr0zac- [pr0zac@209.130-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [] 13:25 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:43 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:48 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@c-73-170-224-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:52 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: .] 13:55 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:55 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@c-73-170-224-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:01 -!- pr0zac- [pr0zac@209.130-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:03 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@172.58.91.159] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:22 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dspfeirynbbvhzpx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:29 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:30 -!- oleganza_ [~oleganza@mcd0536d0.tmodns.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:32 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@172.58.91.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:32 -!- oleganza_ is now known as oleganza 14:36 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:37 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@mcd0536d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:56 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fofbbfwbdwhcmkor] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:03 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: .] 15:19 -!- CryptAxe_ [~CryptAxe@li1713-22.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 15:45 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:30 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-47-85-226.as13285.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31 < Taek> oh that's really interesting 16:32 < Taek> gmaxwell: how does that interact with out-of-band fees? Seems to me at first glance like it does a lot to discourage them 16:32 < Taek> b/c if you pay oob fees, you can't get any rebate for them. 16:33 < Taek> and, the miner has to expose that they are collecting oob fees b/c they'll need to supplement the low-fee on-chain txn to get them into the block 16:33 < gmaxwell> well the monopoly pricing create a distinctive equlibrium where large miners should prefer to take _all_ fees out of band. 16:33 -!- punindented [~punindent@unaffiliated/punindented] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:33 < gmaxwell> The intent of my proposed change would be to eliminate the all or nothing, which indeed make it more clear. 16:45 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:46 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-47-85-226.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:00 < Taek> if I understand the scheme fully, it encourages the miners to prefer taking all fees oob, but it encourages users to pay all fees on-chain using the mechanism that could get them a discount 17:00 < Taek> and if a miner is unable to take certain fees oob, then they have to sacrifice all potential revenue from users that are using on-chain fees 17:02 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 17:06 < Taek> I guess you could end up with an equilibrium where X% of blocks are fully oob, and then the rest are on-chain fees 17:06 < Taek> but then if you are paying oob, you know you can only get into blocks X% of the time 17:06 < Taek> well, same with on-chain too. If oob is >>50%, then it's probably something that would perpetuate 17:07 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:14 -!- techguy305 [~techguy30@c-174-63-179-15.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:14 < techguy305> hey 17:21 -!- techguy305 [~techguy30@c-174-63-179-15.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 17:40 -!- punindented [~punindent@unaffiliated/punindented] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:01 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-87-79-99-5.netcologne.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:01 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-87-79-99-5.netcologne.de] has quit [Changing host] 18:01 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:15 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:23 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:31 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:33 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:43 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:49 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:54 < maaku> gmaxwell: I'm not sure why you're not seeing the all-or-nothing as an advantage, not a weakness. that's the argument from the other side -- it discourages out of band fees existing alongside regular fees 18:55 < maaku> you build a block containing either one or the other -- regular fees or out-of-band-payments. not both. not some of each. 18:56 < maaku> and in that model, it's the user incentive not to do out of band fees, because that only works if everyone does it, and if everyone does it it is strictly worse (because no rebates) than if everyone used regular fees 18:59 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tlnauwpxqiicapra] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:09 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:10 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:13 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:37 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:39 -!- CryptAxe [~CryptAxe@li1713-22.members.linode.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:39 -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:41 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:09 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:42 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20:42 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:46 -!- jimmysong_ [~Jimmy@23-112-39-203.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00 -!- legogris [~legogris@128.199.205.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00 -!- legogris [~legogris@128.199.205.238] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:06 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:08 -!- [7] [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:09 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:14 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:21 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:38 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:11 -!- Letze [~Letze@2a03:b0c0:3:d0::58a1:b001] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11 -!- Letze [~Letze@2a03:b0c0:3:d0::58a1:b001] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:32 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:42 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-imdnawvjodvhfxso] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:45 -!- onabreak [55e4c13c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.228.193.60] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:52 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fofbbfwbdwhcmkor] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:05 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:11 < luke-jr> maaku: updated the BIP draft & code with your suggestions BTW 23:54 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards --- Log closed Sun Oct 01 00:00:33 2017