--- Log opened Tue Oct 10 00:00:42 2017
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02:02 < maaku> sipa: well I mean with a lookup table it will all be pre-decoded
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02:03 < maaku> Eight nodes straddled across three bytes as follows [000 111 22] [2 333 444 5] [55 666 777]
02:07 < maaku> Three different 256 element lookup tables, where the LUT provides the pre-decoded information for the two nodes and the 1 or 2 residuals for the split nodes. A further 3, 8-element LUTs provide the residual->node mappings
02:08 < maaku> fully and wastefully expanded with the styles, residuals, etc. occupying one byte each, that totals about 4k, which fits in L1 cache
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02:27 < maaku> And by rough estimation of probabilities you'd have hit half the cache lines in proofs larger than 16 inner nodes
02:29 < maaku> Which is a little large actually, so I may be prematurely optimizing or want to consider a smaller LUT
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07:51 < waxwing> anyone know where i can see the latest proposed version of schnorr sig. agg. (with the delinearization bit)? thanks
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07:57 < kanzure> waxwing: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/bitcoin-core-dev-tech/2017-09-06-signature-aggregation/
07:58 < waxwing> ah i hadn't seen that one kanzure , thanks
07:58 < waxwing> oh, no i had, just forgot
07:58 < kanzure> keep in mind that this is not the schnorr version
07:59 < kanzure> for schnorr signature aggregation in particular, maybe https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/milan/schnorr-signatures/
07:59 < kanzure> oh i am wrong, "Bellare-Neven Multisignatures, which is a variant of Schnorr signatures"
08:01 < andytoshi> waxwing: so there's nothing _proposed_ in the sense of having a BIP or having the bitcoin-integration stuff nailed down, but the code in https://github.com/bitcoin-core/secp256k1/pull/461 is bassed on Bellare-Neven http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1180453
08:03 < waxwing> andytoshi, thanks. it's probably only tangential, but i suddenly realised that if i wanted to write out your atomic swap scriptless script setup i have to consider how the schnorr 2 of 2 is written out.
08:03 < waxwing> i guess for the purposes of just rough outline, the "basic" setup where you just pass over nonce points and pubkeys is OK.
08:04 < andytoshi> yeah. can you add signatures with those points of themselves to the protocol?
08:04 < andytoshi> like when you pass R also pass a signature with R of R
08:04 < andytoshi> this will prevent related-key attacks without requiring delinearization (for _that_ we have a paper that was just submitted, so hopefully we'll have a solution to point to in coming months)
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08:57 < waxwing> andytoshi, ok thanks, will come back to that, something else: do i take it that it's a given that you have a timeout branch in the outpoint Alice/Bob pay in to (a la the basic atomic swap)? so like one branch is CHECKSCHNORRSIG (w/e) for the 2/2 pubkey and one branch for a CLTV + Alice, type of thing.
08:59 < andytoshi> waxwing: yeah
09:00 < andytoshi> for swaps you can just use normal locktime transactions though rather than CLTV
09:00 < andytoshi> which saves a little space and privacy
09:00 < waxwing> oh that's a point .. we want privacy here so .. we don't even want locktimes come to that, don't you think?
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09:01 < waxwing> well that's another point, of course the huge win is no publishing a secret that connects, so even if there's a locktime it's still worth it
09:02 < andytoshi> well the locktimed transactions ideally never get published
09:02 < andytoshi> oh, derp
09:03 < andytoshi> no ... counterderp. the locktimed transactions ideally never get published
09:03 < waxwing> yes i think you can do the "CoinSwap" style that doesn't publish the backouts
09:03 < andytoshi> you don't even need to do the coinswap thing, which avoids publishing the hash-preimage challenges
09:03 < andytoshi> because there are no hash challenges to begin with
09:04 < waxwing> right .. but if there's a second timelock branch? or if there's just a locktime on the transaction?
09:04 < waxwing> ok i can see your argument, if it's just, the fact that it has a locktime isn't nearly that bad.
09:04 < waxwing> no hang on i haven't got this right at all lol
09:05 < andytoshi> there's no second timelock branch. the timelocks are only for refunds in case somebody backs out
09:06 < waxwing> right. exchange backouts in advance. got it.
09:06 < andytoshi> yep
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13:19 < waxwing> andytoshi, arubi this is what i've got so far: https://gist.github.com/AdamISZ/d8ed3df3f540d06980e3d65b4aef70bc
13:19 < arubi> thanks waxwing
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13:22 < waxwing> i'll probably make a diagram, but, tomorrow
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13:23 < arubi> will probably try to run this in bc, but also tomorrow :)
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14:28 < waxwing> arubi, updated it a fair bit after andytoshi helped me understand the right way to handle the 'related key' thing. same basic proto. but different way of constructing the keys for multisig.
14:29  * waxwing has no problem taking arubi seriously anymore when he says i'll just go ahead and write that in bc ...
14:29 < andytoshi> lol, ditto
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--- Log closed Wed Oct 11 00:00:42 2017