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09:17 < hazirafel> bitcoin lizards
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11:19 < a87ry5> adiabat: are the slides public for the presentation you gave back in may in brooklyn? where you discussed the idea of building an exchange that just routes LN payments between bettors as opposed to holding customer private keys
11:20 < adiabat> a87ry5: hm, I don't know, I think they got put on a site from that event but not sure.  I can find the sildes and link to em though, 1 sec
11:26 < adiabat> a87ry5: here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1mVVJPUw8YuU8hHvzn-LUGP0t2XSz1_RtjxtdY5UkRug/edit?usp=sharing
11:29 < a87ry5> adiabat: thank you
11:33 < adiabat> a87ry5: sure!  That was a fun meme pic :)
11:33 < a87ry5> lol yep
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20:35 < rusty> sipa: writing wallet today, if someone tells you to pay to a BIP173 address, which passes segwit_addr_decode, bu with witver > 0, we should accept and set it as a scriptpubkey OP_<version> + addr?  Or should we refuse, and require an upgrade?
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20:40 < sipa> rusty: i think you should accept
20:41 < rusty> sipa: right.  Just wanted to make absolutely sure, since we've had the debate before over not actually encoding a scriptpubkey.
20:41 < sipa> rusty: yes, bip173 is just segwit outputs, but it does include all segwit outputs
20:42 < rusty> sipa: excellent, thanks for confirmation!
20:42 < sipa> otherwise you're introducing yet more classes of support, with unclarity which software can send to which
20:43 < rusty> sipa: well, in future behavour will change wrt invalid addresses.  eg. today we do length check on witver == 0.  Tomorrow we might on witver == 1.  But that corner case seems OK.
20:44 < sipa> rusty: yeah, but i don't expect to continue that practice
20:45 < sipa> as in, a future witness version may define v1 len32 to have some meaning, but leave all other v1 lengths undefined/anyonecanspend
20:45 < rusty> Ah, YA upgrade mechanism then...
20:47 < sipa> haha
20:48 < sipa> it's a bit of a waste that v0 only permits len 20 and 32; that's kinda wasteful use of version space
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20:50 < rusty> You could sacrifice 1 bit of security and get a new semantic for a 255-bits of data :)  That's another 15 versions...
20:57 < sipa> ?
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22:55 < dongcarl> Hi all. Looking at BIP32+39 and trying to understand. Wondering why HMAC-SHA512 was used as the PRNG instead of simply SHA512.
22:55 < dongcarl> Specifically in the mnemonic + passphrase -> seed process
23:04 < sipa> HMAC protect against some attacks that practical hash functions dont (in partocilar, length extension attacks)
23:04 < sipa> in the case od BIP32 these don't really apply though
23:04 < sipa> *of
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23:44 < dongcarl> sipa: Gotcha.
23:45 < sipa> dongcarl: in general, overdesigning and relying on well-known constructions is a good thing
23:45 < sipa> performance isn't particularly critical here
23:46 < sipa> there are worse examples... see RFC6979 for example, which uses HMAC-SHA256 repeatedly to generate a single random nonce (i think it needs over a dozen SHA256 compressions to generate a single nonce)
23:46  * dongcarl facepalms
23:47 < sipa> in any case, for BIP32 you can blame me :)
23:48 < dongcarl> sipa: Haha it's good, I'm new to cryptography so just trying to understand design decisions, as I know they can depend on very minute details
23:48 < sipa> so in short, there would probably not be any issue with using just SHA512
23:48 < dongcarl> I remember trying to choose cipher suites for StrongSwan, and they used HMAC-SHA256 as default PRNG as well
23:49 < sipa> but that doesn't mean that for a standard designed to protect potentially millions or more, a more conservative choice isn't better
23:49 < dongcarl> sipa: right, but "overdesigning and relying on well-known constructions is a good thing"
23:50 < dongcarl> Perfect. Thanks.
--- Log closed Sat Oct 14 00:00:45 2017