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00:17 < ecurrencyhodler_> Ah ic
00:17 < ecurrencyhodler_> That makes so much sense
00:18 < ecurrencyhodler_> Would you mind taking a look at a diagram I drew up?
00:20 < ecurrencyhodler_> If you’re on keybase I can share it through there!  I just got it and wanna try it out.  :-P
00:21 < ecurrencyhodler_> Btw ty vm @sipa you’ve been very helpful.
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06:42 < waxwing> i've been working on this, corrections/opinions would be welcome: https://gist.github.com/AdamISZ/a5b3fcdd8de4575dbb8e5fba8a9bd88c
06:43 < waxwing> general idea is something like; with segwit, we can make pre-agree/sign sets of transactions, this is applicable to things like coinjoin, advantage would be reduced interactivity but also creating different patterns (if individual transactions don't have to preserve counterparties' balances)
06:43 < waxwing> probably strictly off-topic though :)
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09:17 < bsm117532> waxwing: the "Pay to Timelock Signed Transaction" I proposed requires the segwit malleability fix and is very similar to what you're saying. https://blog.sldx.com/re-imagining-cold-storage-with-timelocks-1f293bfe421f
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09:18 < bsm117532> Because it's essentially a chain of transactions held off chain and broadcast later.
09:19 < waxwing> bsm117532, right, thanks; it seemed natural that there might be other applications of this kind of thing, will take a read shortly.
09:20 < bsm117532> I also built a key management scheme that uses the same concepts, with pre-signed transactions held in escrow (to protect me from myself and my own key loss).
09:21 < bsm117532> When segwit took a long time to activate I had to rejigger it to handle malleability, which was exceedingly ugly.
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09:27 < waxwing> bsm117532, reading, so, the concept here is similar to what some people describe as 'covenants', is that true? although it seems some people have different ideas about what that is.
09:27 < bsm117532> Yes, very similar
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10:59 < ecurrencyhodler_> Hey, for confidential transactions, how does the hashed (blindkey1 + amount) input match the hashed (blindkey2 + amount) if blindkey are taken from the receiving address?
10:59 < ecurrencyhodler_> Or does the node decode it?
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14:01 < victorSN> The amounts are only present in commitments using EC points, not in hashes (although they both result in seemingly random outputs).
14:01 < victorSN> Can you be more specific, do you mean two inputs, or an input and output? (if this doesn't belong in wizards, we can move to #sidechains-dev or a private conversation
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14:22 < ecurrencyhodler_> Input and outputs.
14:23 < ecurrencyhodler_> If the Ec points carry homomorphic properties, it’s easy enough to understand how they could be added together.  I’m just not sure if the EC points would be th same if you change the blindkey
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23:16 < ecurrencyhodler_> Ok it seems like the client decodes the EC commitments into blindkey1, address, blindkey2, and amount.  It then adds the blindkey2 with all other received blindkeys together then all the received btc together and then send that out.  Whew.  That’s a lot of work for a node.
23:23 < sipa> s/node/wallet
23:24 < sipa> none of that is needed to verify other's transactions
23:24 < sipa> just when you want to create a transaction yourself
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23:39 < ecurrencyhodler_> Right
23:41 < ecurrencyhodler_> And I think the pederson commitment formula is not the base58check equation I had formally thought
23:41 < sipa> base58 is just for addresses, which arw purely human interface candy
23:41 < ecurrencyhodler_> Sigh...
23:42 < sipa> internally it's all just keys and signatures
23:42 < ecurrencyhodler_> There’s like no simple way to explain this unless I completely gloss over the pederson commitments
23:47 < sipa> i think you should understand the pedersen commitmemts first
23:47 < ecurrencyhodler_> Trying to but it’s a bit over my head.
23:49 < ecurrencyhodler_> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/quMiMsrU/Screen+Shot+2017-10-16+at+11.48.21+PM.png
23:49 < ecurrencyhodler_> From what I understand G is a cyclic generator.  It is then hashed.
23:51 < ecurrencyhodler_> The cyclic generator is then multiplied by the blindkey and added to the btc amount times the hashed G
23:52 < ecurrencyhodler_> Somehow, blindkey times cyclic generator = hashed cyclic generator
23:52 < ecurrencyhodler_> xG=H
23:52 < ecurrencyhodler_> https://elementsproject.org/elements/confidential-transactions/investigation.html
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 17 00:00:48 2017