--- Log opened Tue Nov 21 00:00:21 2017 00:31 -!- bxbxb [~bxbxb@irc.clone.army] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:32 -!- bxbxb [~bxbxb@216.107.153.125] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:36 -!- JackH [~laptop@alvira.static.korbank.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:41 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@92.154.68.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:42 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 00:56 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:56 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10 -!- d_t [~d_t@108-65-78-188.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:17 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:22 -!- stiell [~stian@fsf/member/stiell] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:24 -!- stiell [~stian@fsf/member/stiell] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:35 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@host-im1adb.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:44 < stevenroose> Anybody read about Hashgraph yet? http://www.swirlds.com/downloads/SWIRLDS-TR-2016-01.pdf 01:49 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:51 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@188.94.18.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:53 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.153.219] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:53 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.153.219] has quit [Changing host] 01:53 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:55 -!- huntingcryptos [~huntingcr@149.7.98.227] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:59 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@217.114.51.150] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:01 -!- huntingcryptos [~huntingcr@149.7.98.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:16 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:17 -!- jannes [~jannes@095-097-246-234.static.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:32 -!- Yogh [~Yogh@92-110-183-153.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:33 -!- Yogh [~Yogh@92-110-183-153.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:37 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:44 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [] 02:49 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:51 -!- TrufflePig [43c1d724@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.193.215.36] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:51 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@217.114.51.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@188.94.18.118] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:12 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13 -!- d_t [~d_t@108-65-78-188.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:54 -!- jtimon [~quassel@164.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:55 -!- packetsmurf [coinsmurf@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:57 -!- coinsmurf [coinsmurf@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:42 -!- huntingcryptos [~huntingcr@149.7.98.227] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:47 -!- cannedprimates [sid16585@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eebblsqdvxdpzxcb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:53 -!- contrapumpkin [~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 04:54 -!- contrapumpkin [~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:00 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:01 -!- daszorz2 [~daszorz@host-92-27-50-57.static.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:02 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:02 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@188.94.18.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:06 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@c-73-248-248-9.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:07 -!- StopAndDecrypt_ [~StopAndDe@c-73-248-248-9.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:11 -!- smk [d18015a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.128.21.162] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:30 -!- Emcy_ [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:32 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:33 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-204-28-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:43 -!- nakaluna [~nakaluna@201-19-131-34.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:49 -!- daszorz2 [~daszorz@host-92-27-50-57.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:51 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@217.114.51.150] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:02 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:03 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmakgmewvarezitt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 06:14 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:16 -!- Emcy_ [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:16 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@217.114.51.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@188.94.18.118] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:33 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:43 < nsh> seems the same radix economy type optimisations should be possible as with the elements CT implementation using bulletproofs 06:45 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:46 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@095-129-169-178-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@095-129-169-178-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:50 < nsh> mantissa, word escaped me for 10 minutes there :( 06:52 < nsh> shouldn't cause any problems aggregating proofs of varying significant digit precisoin 06:52 < nsh> except some minor code complexity overhead 06:53 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:54 < nsh> also btw [andytoshi], for a CT application of bulletproofs does/would the receiver derandomise the fiat-shamir heuristic to recover the amounts using a witness-extraction process? 06:54 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:55 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:55 < nsh> wasn't really elaborated but i guess it would transfer over relatively trivially from the CT implementation 06:56 < nsh> via some implicit ECDH key agreement that is used to fix the blinding factors or other overdetermine the linear system for the receiver 06:59 < nsh> which raises the question of whether the messages can be stuffed into the proof entropy again. they wouldn't survive aggregation which is good for bloat but perhaps an ephemeral encrypted message field could be of some utility while its in the mempool 06:59 < nsh> whether *messages 07:00 -!- huntingcryptos [~huntingcr@149.7.98.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00 < waxwing> yeah i guess you could xor the message into the FS challenges and use ECDH as in the previous version. (just trying to interpret what you're saying nsh). i guess it carries across as a technique if needed. 07:01 < nsh> right, just trying to muse on whether the inner product argument constrains any more than the borromean ring composition 07:01 < nsh> doesn't seem intuitively so but i haven't worked it out 07:01 < waxwing> uhh no not sure what i'm talking about there .. would have to actually think about it 07:02 * nsh nods 07:07 -!- satwo [~textual@2602:306:378a:6fb0:137:974f:d88f:5add] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 07:08 -!- contrapumpkin [~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 07:09 -!- contrapumpkin [~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:12 < waxwing> i guess specifically the blinding terms in what's transferred as proof (so mu, tau_x, perhaps other parts?) would be what you could graft it into. 07:17 -!- laurentmt1 [~Thunderbi@92.154.68.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:18 -!- satwo [~textual@2602:306:378a:6fb0:f5b9:7253:618c:3ff] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:19 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@92.154.68.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:19 -!- laurentmt1 is now known as laurentmt 07:21 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@188.94.18.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@188.94.18.118] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:30 < nsh> aye actually that is a lot more constrained. not sure what i was thinking 07:38 <@andytoshi> nsh: you have way less entropy to stick messages into 07:39 <@andytoshi> some constant number of bytes that does not increase with aggregate sigs. i think 64 bytes 07:39 < nsh> right 07:47 -!- huntingcryptos [~huntingcr@149.7.98.227] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:48 -!- huntingcryptos [~huntingcr@149.7.98.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53 -!- huntingcryptos [~huntingcr@149.7.98.227] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:56 < nsh> was the talk at scalingbitcoin recorded/kanzure'd? 07:56 < nsh> got: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/stanford-2017/state-of-cryptography/ 07:58 -!- sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-hvrvklzidbyfrxri] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:59 < waxwing> nsh, do you mean, talk about bulletproofs? if so, yes, that was the one, it was just briefly mentioned iirc 08:00 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@188.94.18.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01 < nsh> was also presented at stanford security lunch this spring, but we don't have posthuman stenographers there, i guess 08:04 -!- huntingcryptos [~huntingcr@149.7.98.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10 < kanzure> can't be there if i'm not told about it 08:14 <@andytoshi> afaik bulletproofs were not public in any way until scaling bitcoin 08:15 <@andytoshi> i think the spring talk was about an earlier idea that involved pairings and didn't really win until you aggregated 08:15 <@andytoshi> vs bulletproofs which, even without aggregation, beat the pants off of the old proofs wrt both CPU time and space, and they require no new security assumptions 08:24 -!- geezas [uid253218@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-luxqyxthvcguocey] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:24 < aj> i keep seeing things on twitter or blogs talking mentioning "bulletproof" and then being disappointed they're just talking about stopping bullets :( 08:27 <@andytoshi> lol 08:40 -!- Emcy_ [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:41 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:44 -!- jtimon [~quassel@164.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:47 -!- warriors_ [b94df804@gateway/web/freenode/ip.185.77.248.4] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:47 < warriors_> i researched bulletproofs: https://soundcloud.com/see-i/bulletproof-thunderball-remix 08:49 < warriors_> sweet song right? 08:50 < kanzure> wrong channel 08:50 < warriors_> music is always on topic 08:51 < warriors_> especially topical music 08:52 < warriors_> sorry didnt mean to interupt your precious silence and blank screen. i mean, it is chat right? being on a chat and not chatting is antithetical 08:52 -!- warriors_ [b94df804@gateway/web/freenode/ip.185.77.248.4] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 08:53 <@andytoshi> warriors_: this is a research channel, many people read the entire scrollback, please stop filling it with chatter 08:53 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:54 -!- Emcy_ [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:57 < geo2020> Where I'm from, it be like, "run your coat black", Jupiter, keeps her fat beats by the pack. Rising like we foam, get it from your chrome, I'm from where the fat beats stretch for mad blocks. We can get a rootkit, without no thread. Feeling funky beats go straight to your head. 08:58 -!- Emcy_ [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:59 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:02 -!- huntingcryptos [~huntingcr@149.7.98.227] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:02 -!- coinsmurf [coinsmurf@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:02 -!- packetsmurf [coinsmurf@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:03 -!- jb55 [~jb55@208.98.200.100] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:07 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:07 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:08 -!- Emcy_ [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:10 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:15 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:18 -!- _rht [uid86914@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qzofrqirsvezglhb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:23 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has quit [Quit: Waiting for .007] 09:25 -!- Emcy_ [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:27 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:34 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:42 -!- StopAndDecrypt_ [~StopAndDe@c-73-248-248-9.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44 -!- hdevalence [~hdevalenc@199-188-193-243.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:51 -!- huntingcryptos [~huntingcr@149.7.98.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@host-im1adb.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:03 -!- smk [d18015a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.128.21.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17 -!- contrapumpkin [~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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