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06:07 < waxwing> nsh, it's pretty minimal (see the several caveats in readme) but maybe it's helpful: https://github.com/AdamISZ/bulletproofs-poc
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17:12 < maaku> observation: as currently implemented a signature in a MAST input is not tied to the policy script used
17:13 < maaku> this might have some surprising implications, where a user gives up a signature for one policy (because it has a lock-time condition on it or something), and that signature can be reused on some other branch of the MAST tree the user has signing authority over
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17:14 < maaku> this could be systematically fixed by making the signature directly cover the script currently being executed, but that breaks signature aggregation and re-introduces quadratic hashing problems
17:15 < maaku> alternative (and probably the the best that can be done), user software should not reuse keys, even along exclusive alternate paths of the Merkle tree.
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17:17 < sipa> i don't see how that reintroduces quadratic hashing
17:17 < sipa> it's at worst a factor over the amount of data hashed otherwise
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17:20 < maaku> well there are certainly ways to implement it that don't reintroduce quadratic hashing
17:21 < maaku> although I don't see how to do so without also mucking up signature aggregation
17:22 < sipa> i don't understand that part either :)
17:23 < sipa> and even the most naive implementation of hashing the script being executed would not add quadratic hashing
17:23 < maaku> oh wait, I was assuming the messages being signed had to be the same, but B-N doesn't require that
17:23 < maaku> ok awesome :)
17:24 < sipa> BN itself does require identical messages - but in a signature aggregation setting you just compute the (joint) message as H(m1 || m2 || m3 || ...)
17:24 < sipa> anyway, i do think you should commit to the actual choice of program
17:24 < sipa> it's similar to how the sighash type is explicitly included in the sighash
17:25 < maaku> what about the validator? it won't know the joint message until it has seen all pubkeys, right? so there's not a constant space batch-as-you-go verification algorithm?
17:25 < sipa> right
17:26 < sipa> it needs linear memory
17:26 < sipa> but who cares - the transaction already needs linear memory anyway with a much larger constant factor
17:27 < maaku> true
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19:56 < cluelessperson> I have a question about bitcoin fees.
19:56 < cluelessperson> Aren't high bitcoin fees basically forced by low bitcoin resolution?
19:57 < cluelessperson> If you have to pay fees as 0.00000001 being the lowest unit of resolution, then 246*0.00000001 => Bitcoin Transaction Fee
19:57 < cluelessperson> Versus,  0.0000000000000001 * 246 => Bitcoin Fee
20:01 < aj> cluelessperson: per-byte fees being 1s or more is a wallet implementation detail; the only requirement is total fee is an integer number of satoshis. bitcoin core calculates satoshis per 1000 bytes, so gives you finer resolution. but market rates are higher than 1s/byte anyway
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20:12 < cluelessperson> aj: I feel what has set the market initially is that some popular wallets set a 1sat/B bottom limit, I suppose
20:12 < cluelessperson> although maybe the market would raise to what people are willing to pay.
20:12 < cluelessperson> hm
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22:18 < aj> cluelessperson: there are still plenty of wallets with a higher minimum than 1s/B. it wasn't long ago that the minimum fee was 10k satoshi per tx
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23:20 < eck> to aj's point, if you look at the fees people are paying, there are huge vertical steps at different even-valued satoshi/byte fee values
23:20 < eck> indicating a fairly large number of users who have legacy wallets that don't do real fee estimation
23:22 < eck> if the market was perfectly efficient you would expect some gaussian (or poisson? i'm not a professional mathematician) distribution of fees measured in satoshis/byte
23:23 < eck> there are enough outliers in the histogram bucket that i think it's safe to say that it's more important to get more clients on more accurate fee models than it is to optimize what existing clients have available to them
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 23 00:00:23 2017