--- Log opened Fri Dec 29 00:00:56 2017 00:20 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web501.webfaction.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@207.38.86.239] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:41 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:47 -!- blyat_ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:50 -!- blyat__ [~blyat@71.71.200.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:52 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:58 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:00 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@92.154.68.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:15 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mvcsabilwshwmbhi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:19 -!- CheckDavid 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cyberhugger [uid266293@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-podynpereroogvcg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:52 -!- Worc [70ca3b03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.112.202.59.3] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:52 < Worc> Everybody btc is goind down 04:52 < contrapumpkin> fluffypony: using the scheme I linked to earlier or something else? is there a way to do monero-bitcoin swaps without ZKCP on the bitcoin side? 04:52 < contrapumpkin> Worc: wrong channel 04:53 < Worc> just kidding 04:53 < Worc> checking if channel is active 05:03 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:04 < contrapumpkin> fluffypony: or if not that scheme, is there any other writing on it? 05:10 < fluffypony> contrapumpkin: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/lightning-network-now-supports-transactions-across-blockchains/ 05:10 < fluffypony> https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/atomic-swaps-how-the-lightning-network-extends-to-altcoins-1484157052/ 05:10 < fluffypony> there should be something linked there 05:10 < contrapumpkin> I know the general scheme across coins, but because monero has no script, it has to be different, right? 05:10 < contrapumpkin> I'll look 05:11 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kcnheexnuspnjqbj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:11 < contrapumpkin> this was the scheme I was asking about: https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/895 05:11 < contrapumpkin> which uses multisig on the monero side and ZKCP on the bitcoin side 05:12 < fluffypony> contrapumpkin: best place to ask about that is #monero-research-lab, they may have strong feelings on that 05:12 < contrapumpkin> oh okay, didn't know about that one :) thanks 05:19 -!- Worc [70ca3b03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.112.202.59.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:42 -!- son0p [~ff@d50-92-132-122.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:43 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:44 -!- Giszmo 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joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:14 -!- m8tion [~m8tion@81-65-53-254.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20 -!- itsme__ [~textual@x4d04fe8f.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:24 -!- itsme [~textual@77.4.207.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:31 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37 -!- blyat_ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:41 -!- blyat__ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:41 < waxwing> i don't know details, but i'm wondering, if monero transaction signatures are on ed25519, and if that is essentially schnorr-like (is it? i'd have to look it up), then could you exploit the linearity as per scriptless scripts to do atomic swaps? (adaptor signatures) 10:41 < waxwing> oh that reminds me about the question of doing that across different curves ... 10:42 < contrapumpkin> interesting. Maybe folks in #monero-research-lab can help with that too? 10:42 < waxwing> even if that were possible, it would only imply ability to do it on own blockchain, or another with schnorr anyway 10:42 < contrapumpkin> could be very cool :) 10:43 < contrapumpkin> plus, schnorr is just so much fun to pronounce 10:43 < contrapumpkin> so the more opportunities the better 10:43 < waxwing> andytoshi, is the most likely to be able to comment on ^ (and, the monero guys of course) 10:44 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-56-2.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:44 < waxwing> hmm yes brief scan of eddsa page on wikipedia suggests it's basically exactly schnorr in structure. 10:44 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-56-2.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:44 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:45 < contrapumpkin> random stackexchange comment says they already use schnorrish stuff in some places: https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/2290/why-how-does-monero-generate-public-ed25519-keys-without-using-the-standard-publ#comment1390_2295 10:45 < contrapumpkin> QED 10:47 < waxwing> yeah good point of course the ring sig is not the same as the pure eddsa sig itself, so .. don't know. 10:54 < waxwing> contrapumpkin, in case you don't know about the scriptless script atomic swap idea, see https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizardry/mw-slides/2017-05-milan-meetup/slides.pdf and my fleshing out of atomic swap specifically here: https://joinmarket.me/blog/blog/flipping-the-scriptless-script-on-schnorr/ 11:04 -!- teslax_ [Elite19141@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-wfaymicjsbrqepdh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:08 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:11 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@c-73-119-55-73.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:17 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined 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22:15 < sipa> no 22:16 < mryandao> what are polysigs? 22:16 < mryandao> O.O 22:19 < sipa> say you want to construct a 99-of-100 policy 22:19 < sipa> you could use key trees (iterate over all 100 subset and put them in the merkle tree) 22:20 < mryandao> yes 22:20 < sipa> but imagine instead of doing that, i give you the sum of all the keys P1+P2+P3+... 22:20 < sipa> and i give you also P1+2*P2+3*P3+4*P4+... 22:21 < sipa> and now i tell you that key 3 is missing (so 1,2,4,5,6...100 will be signing) 22:22 < sipa> let's say S1 = P1+P2+P3+... and S2 = 1*P1+2*P2+3*P3+... 22:23 < sipa> now i give you a signature with key S2-3*S1 22:23 < sipa> which you can compute from S2 and S1 which i've given you 22:23 < mryandao> how does the additive property hold? 22:24 < sipa> in every way you expect 22:24 < sipa> so S2-3*S1 becomes what? 22:24 < sipa> if you write it in function of P1P2,... 22:25 < mryandao> mm, i'll know the 99 keys have signed. 22:25 < sipa> yes 22:25 < sipa> but does S2-3*S1 depend on P3? 22:26 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:28 < mryandao> if you did that 3*P3 just dissapears. 22:29 < mryandao> so what exactly does it mean if s2-3*s1 depends on p3? 22:29 < sipa> right, that's the point 22:29 < sipa> with S1 and S2 you can construct expressions from which any single given P disappears 22:30 < sipa> so that lets you construct (n-1)-of-n multisig 22:31 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:31 < mryandao> ah i see 22:31 < mryandao> thank you 22:32 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqzrakkxotoflxdv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 22:34 < sipa> and this generalizes 22:34 < sipa> you can construct k-of-n multisig by giving (n-k+1) terms 22:34 < sipa> the next one would be S3 = P1 + 4*P2 + 9*P3 + 16*P4 + ... 22:55 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:05 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:37 -!- cyberhugger [uid266293@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmybpxjqlxwukfpz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:38 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:47 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:49 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@73.61.11.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Sat Dec 30 00:00:57 2017