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07:27 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/blockchain-protocol-analysis-security-engineering/2017/lightning-network-security-analysis/
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08:51 < windsok> anyone know if videos from bpase 2018 are up anywhere?
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08:57 < sipa> windsok: not yet, but i expect they'll be on their website soon
08:58 < windsok> thanks sipa, i'll keep an eye out
09:00 < fronti> windsok: these ones? https://cyber.stanford.edu/blockchainconf
09:00 < windsok> https://cyber.stanford.edu/bpase18
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09:20 < fasterfreeforeve> hello
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09:21 < fasterfreeforeve> any bitcoin wizard here?
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09:24 < contrapumpkin> fasterfreeforeve: the usual IRC advice is "don't ask to ask, just ask"
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09:25 < fasterfreeforeve> i need help with starting a genesis block for a fork of PIVX coin
09:25 < fasterfreeforeve> https://github.com/PIVX-Project/PIVX
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09:29 < windsok> ##altcoin-dev
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10:56 < RubenSomsen> Question related to taproot, it is P = C + H(C||S)G. Can you also do P = C + H(S)G assuming you have already seen a signature proving C is a valid pubkey?
10:57 < arubi> it's a bit slow here at times RubenSomsen, but idling here is rewarding enough :)
10:57 < RubenSomsen> Thanks for the heads-up
10:57 < arubi> cheers
10:57 < waxwing> RubenSomsen, i understand the Q, but my counter-Q is, is there any reason you'd need to not use C in the hash?
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10:58 < RubenSomsen> Well, I am exploring whether it is possible to commit to more than one hash in the pubkey
10:59 < kanzure> merkle root of a hash tree?
10:59 < RubenSomsen> And it is possible in the taproot way, but it requires revealing every S you commit to
10:59 < waxwing> oh. but since the idea is to have S be validated against (in non-cooperative case), why would you do that?
11:00 < sipa> RubenSomsen: if you use your construction you can't prove afterwards what the commitment was
11:00 < sipa> you could just reveal P-H(S)G for any S
11:01 < RubenSomsen> sipa: but for a different S you would not be able to sign with C, no?
11:01 < sipa> when you reveal the script, no signature with C is required in taproot
11:02 < RubenSomsen> I know, my question is specific to the assumption that a signature exists
11:02 < RubenSomsen> and I understand that taproot specifically avoids that requirement
11:02 < sipa> in that case, i believe it's secure
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11:04 < RubenSomsen> So if we assume a schnorr 2-3 multisig, in MAST there would be three scripts: AB, AC, and BC (and perhaps also ABC)
11:04 < sipa> RubenSomsen: andytoshi just told me IRL i'm an idiot, and you can still sign with C-H(S)G as keu, for any C and S
11:05 < sipa> it's just offsetting the key
11:05 < RubenSomsen> umm let me see if I follow
11:06 < sipa> so we start from a real C and a real S
11:06 < sipa> and compute P = C + H(S)G
11:06 < RubenSomsen> yeah
11:06 < sipa> which is the commitment
11:06 < sipa> the private key for p is just c+H(S)
11:06 < sipa> now i want to open this commitment for S'
11:07 < RubenSomsen> right
11:07 < sipa> so I reveal S', and verifiers will want to see S' and a signature with P-H(S')G, right?
11:08 < RubenSomsen> yeah
11:08 < sipa> so the private key for P-H(S')G is just p+H(S)-H(S')
11:09 < sipa> ah, but this can only be done by those who know p
11:09 < sipa> who can already sign anyway?
11:09 < sipa> is that your point?
11:09 < RubenSomsen> need a moment to process, hold on
11:11 < waxwing> if you (jointly) can sign P then you can sign on any tweak, i don't think it's the signing part for which the C-inside-hash matters
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11:13 < RubenSomsen> the private key for P-H(S')G is p-H(S'), no?
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11:13 < andyphoneshi> rubensomsen yes
11:14 < RubenSomsen> Thanks Andrew
11:14 < andyphoneshi> waxwing the commitment to C gets you a precommitment to the script which avoids the need for a signature
11:15 < RubenSomsen> Wasnt there a way to commit to a value that requires a signature as proof?
11:15 < andyphoneshi> but if you have a signature, you can use this trick (or rather a variant where the pubkey just signs S' directly without being offset) you can get arbitrary delegation like this
11:16 < andyphoneshi> rubensomsen unsure
11:17 < andyphoneshi> what i just described is due to gmaxwell who explained it to me IRL, but hasn't yet written it up
11:20 < waxwing> ok so it's like: if it were P=C+H(S), then when opening the commitment (to the network, which only checks that P = C + H(S)), you could open it to a different pair (C, S) easily
11:21 < waxwing> i.e you want to make it S', just choose C' = C + H(S') - H(S)
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11:25 < RubenSomsen> Yeah that is my understanding now too. Thanks for pointing out what I was missing, guys.
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11:30 < andyphoneshi> waxwing to get taproot one of those hashes should have P in it, as revealing this does not require a sig and therefore can be done more efficiently
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11:33 < waxwing> andyphoneshi, yes, i was just trying to get clear why it's not secure to do it without C in the hash (you meant C not P presumably)
11:33 < waxwing> but thanks for clarifying the 'without signature' bit in your description, i'd kind of glossed over that when reading Greg's write up. it's a rather crucial point :)
11:35 < waxwing> so i suppose the typical scenario being something like S is (timelock condition) (pubkey condition) so there's a sig, just not against P/C.
11:36 < andyphoneshi> yeah
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12:25 < instagibbs> i had the same exact confusion, thought I had figured out a way to commit to many different contingencies, later realized I had glossed over the actual point of p2ch :)
12:26 < instagibbs> Well, you can, but you must reveal all of them at the same time
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16:32 < maaku> Section 5.3.6 of FIPS 180-4 specifies arbitrary bit truncations of SHA-512, and XOR's the IV by 0xa5a5a5a5... before doing a hash. Anyone know why?
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