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1.6.3 - http://znc.in] 08:29 -!- Yogh [~Yogh@92-110-183-153.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:29 -!- abomb_ [~abomb@65.255.189.192] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:32 -!- abomb [~abomb@65.255.189.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:43 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:56 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:a03c:dd10:e681:c1d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:a03c:dd10:e681:c1d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:08 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:10 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:a03c:dd10:e681:c1d] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:20 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:a03c:dd10:e681:c1d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:31 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:a03c:dd10:e681:c1d] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:31 -!- spinza [~spin@196.212.164.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:31 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:a03c:dd10:e681:c1d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:36 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:a03c:dd10:e681:c1d] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:36 -!- cryptojanitor [uid278088@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxmsnnishrcslynn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:43 -!- tobeey [4e9566aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.102.170] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:44 < tobeey> I'm surprised that grin will be unlimited supply 09:44 < tobeey> won't there be a rush to create alts for it? 09:45 < tobeey> obviously I'd like to contribute hashing power to support the real grin 09:46 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:a03c:dd10:e681:c1d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:48 < tobeey> are there Any oOOoooh... e'iz Ard ere? 09:49 < tobeey> i know i have ahh appiness 09:49 < tobeey> the grin is a pea 09:50 < tobeey> me want to take many a p 09:50 < tobeey> :| 09:51 < tobeey> grin will make me happy 09:51 < tobeey> :) 10:02 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:a03c:dd10:e681:c1d] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:06 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:a03c:dd10:e681:c1d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:07 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:a03c:dd10:e681:c1d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09 -!- spinza [~spin@196.212.164.26] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:10 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caitqlychborktpx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:11 -!- nuncanada [~dude@187.65.68.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13 -!- nuncanada [~dude@187.65.68.254] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:14 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:20 -!- neha [~narula@tbilisi.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:25 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25 < grzs> yeah grin looks great :) 10:25 -!- nuncanada [~dude@187.65.68.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:27 -!- nuncanada [~dude@187.65.68.254] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:28 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:28 -!- neha [~narula@tbilisi.csail.mit.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:30 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:36 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:40 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54 < maaku> tobeey: a fixed subsidy is indistinguishable from a fixed supply in the limit 10:55 < maaku> economically it's not really any different than bitcoin in the long term 10:58 < belcher> are they different in some other way? why choose one over the other 10:59 -!- tobeey [4e9566aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.102.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00 -!- hdevalence [~hdevalenc@52.119.117.17] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:01 < maaku> i don't know. i don't think what grin is doing has value, so I'm the wrong person to ask why they are doing it 11:02 < wumpus> apart from the practical consideration that, with an infinitely increasing supply, it needs to be able to handle arbitrarily large integer amounts 11:03 < sipa> you don't necessarily need to support arbitrarily large values within one output 11:04 < sipa> though having an inevitable exponential growth in utxos may also be undesirable 11:04 < wumpus> it does need to be able to verify that sum(inputs) >= sum(outputs) 11:04 < sipa> well, not in CT :) 11:04 < sipa> or rather, that's implied 11:05 -!- neha [~narula@tbilisi.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:05 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:05 < wumpus> good point 11:06 < sipa> but it still has practical limits 11:06 -!- neha [~narula@tbilisi.csail.mit.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:06 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 11:06 < sipa> the range proofs become larger if the supported ranges are largee 11:07 < sipa> and you need to make sure the sum of amounts within one transaction doesn't exceed 2^256 11:07 < sipa> (or whatever the curve order is) 11:13 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:17 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@host-im1adb.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:23 < maaku> it would take 700 years for the perpetual subsidy of grin to overflow 64 bits in total issuance, and probably a million years before that is of actual concern to utxos 11:25 < sipa> haha 11:25 < grzs> this sounds like the beginning of the most awesome sci fi novel ever 11:26 < maaku> not that it really matters, quantum computers will arrive way before then 11:26 < sipa> "if only we had known 700 years ago" 11:27 < maaku> grin makes a lot of weird choices anyway, including not supporting some of the fundamental features of mimblewimble like cut-through, block and blockchain aggregation, compact IBD, etc. 11:28 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@host-im1adb.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:28 < maaku> I hope that we can have an actual mimblewimble implementation based on elements that interacts with bitcoin instead of re-inventing the square wheel :\ 11:45 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@cpc106809-live29-2-0-cust896.17-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:46 -!- cryptojanitor [uid278088@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxmsnnishrcslynn] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:47 -!- dcousens [~dcousens@110.140.105.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:48 -!- dcousens [~dcousens@101.188.220.230] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:49 -!- laurentmt 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[~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:32 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:35 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:42 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:51 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:53 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:54 < wizard_> are any7 of you any good at these cicada 3301 things? 21:54 -!- echonaut 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