--- Log opened Thu Feb 08 00:00:46 2018
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00:41 < PaulTroon> Does anyone know if the order of aggregation matters when verifying an BLS aggregate signature?
00:43 < PaulTroon> eg. agg sig = sig(m1,P1) * sig(m2,P2) =? sig(m2,P2) * sig(m1,P1)
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01:14 < sipa> PaulTroon: multiplication is commutative
01:16 < PaulTroon> Thanks sipa, this stuff seems like such a free lunch, hard to wrap my head around it
01:18 < PaulTroon> Boneh has a free coursera coming up which I plan to attend, might be interesting to anyone else who wants to get up to speed on the basics
01:18 < PaulTroon> https://www.coursera.org/learn/crypto/home/welcome
01:19 < sipa> i took his first online course in 2011 or so
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04:16 < waxwing> i'm currently reading toc.cryptobook.us (Boneh and Shoup, last updated september, not entirely finished) on nickler 's recommendation. or parts of it. good stuff.
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04:19 < PaulTroon> looks good; I'll add that to my reading list.
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05:00 < wumpus> waxwing: seems interesting, thanks
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09:55 < ruby32> does grin have an IRC channel?
09:56 < kanzure> their altcoin pump requires them to not use IRC, i think
09:59 < andytoshi> yes, it's on irc.gitter.im
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10:24 < ruby32> andytoshi: does gitter by default have an IRC interface for all of its chatrooms?
10:26 < sipa> yes it does
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11:00 < sipa> *PLING*
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11:13 < waxwing> huh, bulletproofs are already mentioned in the wikipedia article on non-interactive zero knowledge proofs
11:14 < waxwing> btw i've been struggling today to understand how you get zero knowledgeness with non-interactivity, since you can't fake transcripts when you hash the prover's commitment (i.e. random oracle model). feel free to ignore if too off-topic here :)
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11:21 < nsh> waxwing, that's where the forking lemma comes into play in ways i can't even quite handwave yet
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11:29 < nsh> this may be useful: http://www.math.ias.edu/~avi/PUBLICATIONS/MYPAPERS/DGOW95/dgw.pdf
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11:36 < waxwing> thanks nsh
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13:10 < andytoshi> waxwing: in the ROM you can fake transcripts by programming the hash function to output whatever you want (and choosing this beforehand)
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14:05 < Alanius> nsh: the forking lemma does not have to do with forging transcripts; it has to do with extracting the witness given black-box access to a successful prover (subject to: IF the successful prover is actually a forger (ie. no interaction with the witness) THEN the extractor gets to control the random oracle)
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14:09 < Alanius> and the forking lemma is really quite simple: the extractor runs the prover and forks right after his first commitment; "forking" in this context means running two different executions with different random coins
14:10 < Alanius> if the different random coins generate different challenges from the adversary, fine by me; or in the rom if the random coins generate different responses from the random oracle, also fine by me
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14:11 < Alanius> the clue is that given a first message (commitment), and pair of distinct completions into valid transcripts should enable the extractor to compute the witness; this property is called special soundnes
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14:13 < Alanius> any* pair
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14:39 < nsh> thanks Alanius!
14:41 < Alanius> no problem :)
14:51 < Alanius> oh and: different challenges from the verifier* (not from the adversary)
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20:08 < waxwing> Alanius, perhaps you can answer this other question i had; why is knowledge soundness defined in terms of the extractor specifically getting *two* transcripts for the same commitment? That's clearly right for Schnorr (extracts the secret), but for protocols in general would not more than 2 sometimes be required?
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20:49 < BitDigiNet> Anyone else looking for GPU ?
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 09 00:00:47 2018