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07:12 < maaku> kallewoof: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/bitcoin-core-dev-tech/2018-03-06-merkleized-abstract-syntax-trees-mast/
07:12 < maaku> (above)
07:13 < maaku> Unrelatedly, can anyone point me in the direction of a byzantine fault tolerent consensus algorithm that has received and survived peer review?
07:14 < maaku> I actually have a blockchain related use case (not a replacement for proof of work!), but am having trouble finding something off the shelf
07:15 < maaku> I have pretty much the same requirements as ripple/stellar -- user configurable quorum lists -- except in my use case it's actually okay to recognize that failures happen and to require human intervention
07:16 < maaku> IBM's "Blockchain consensus in the wild" paints a pretty dismal picture.
07:16 < maaku> https://arxiv.org/abs/1707.01873
07:17 < maaku> The paper started so good and I anticipated getting to the end with a solid recommendation of the one or two systems that met their reasonable requirements. Instead it was a description of how everything fails :\
07:49 < JackH> nice summary from Paxos and up to permissionless protocols though
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07:57 < pigeons> stellar's current protocol stops advancing and requires human intervention in certain conditions
07:57 < pigeons> ripple will continue broken and partitioned and incorrect
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09:02 < JackH> Its nice they are mentioning traditional databases in that paper, like Kafka. A good paper with a great overview I would say
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09:25 < herzmeister[m]> i'm pretty sure you can configure your 30 year old oracle database also properly, it's just one of those obscure features hardly anyone used, so you just have to get a good consultant
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11:49 < maaku> amiller: can you explain why honeybadgerbft's reliance on eventual delivery of messages is sane in the presence of network attackers?
12:08 < Taek> maaku: depends on how determined you are to get a message thorugh. Sneakernet messages are pretty hard to stifle, for example
12:08 < Taek> but then you pay a latency price
12:10 < maaku> In this use case I'm assuming the attacker has full network control and can do anything; drop messages; replay; reorder; etc.
12:10 < maaku> It could be fine if doing so disrupts the BFT protocol, halting progress.
12:11 < maaku> But it seems a little out of touch that HoneyBadgerBFT assumes reliable (if delayed) message transport in its analysis. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something about what that implies?
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12:16 < uiuc-slack> <amiller> hey maaku! great questions....
12:16 < uiuc-slack> <amiller> i've been thinking about this a bit, actually wrote up a pretty specific discussion about how to reduce that assumption https://github.com/amiller/HoneyBadgerBFT/issues/57
12:17 < uiuc-slack> <amiller> ultimately reliable message delivery is something you have to build on top of a unreliable network
12:17 < uiuc-slack> <amiller> you basically just have to keep retrying messages until it gets through
12:18 < maaku> I read that issue. It's not just bounded buffering I'm worried about, but what about out of order message delivery? or persistent (but selective) message dropping?
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12:18 < uiuc-slack> <amiller> out of order message delivery is fine
12:19 < uiuc-slack> <amiller> if an attacker is able to prevent all of the peers from getting messages across then there's no hope
12:20 < maaku> amiller: could, say, an attacker perisistently prevent one peer from getting their proposals in the consensus set?
12:20 < uiuc-slack> <amiller> honeybadgerbft is already explicitly designed to prevent selective delaying of messages from allowing censorship attacks
12:21 < uiuc-slack> <amiller> okay so an attacker could persistently prevent one peer from getting their proposals in.... however, every peer maintains a txMempool, and if a tx is in every honest peers mempool, then the attacker cannot prevent that tx from getting included
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