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07:15 < kanzure> if you wanted to reveal some of your secret keys (like arbitrary passwords) upon your demise, without reducing your opsec to whatever the level of opsec of your chosen executor, is there anything better than encrypt everything, give to executor, choose n individuals and give them a shamir secret sharing shard (or a key member of an onion group for lack of better word) and also the name of ...
07:15 < kanzure> ...the executor, and also don't have a list anywhere of the individuals?
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07:21 < harding> kanzure: one or several tamper-resistant devices with internal clock that doesn't reveal its shamir secret shard until after n days after you last push the "I'm still alive" button?
07:22 < harding> kanzure: also petertodd's timelock thingies.
07:22 < kanzure> unfortunately petertodd's timelock encryption thing seems sorta inappropriate because if the concern is about other people's opsec then an adversary steals the encrypted blob and starts timelockputing before your demise right?
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07:42 < harding> kanzure: Yeah, true.  OTOH, if your opsec is good enough that your executor can't access the data/capabilities your keys provide access to until after your death, and if you can change keys at some point before a particular deadline, you can give your executor the initial timelock vector secure in the knowledge that you can continue using x key safely for a minimum of t time.  If you die and your executor gets access to your data,
07:42 < harding> then he can (when he gets the final hash) decrypt your key; but if you live and destroy your data or disable your capabilities before he gets the key, your own opsec protects you.
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08:02 < kanzure> oh i see; you're proposing that you don't send the executor an encrypted blob of everything, but rather you couple his ability to decrypt your things to physical possession of your things as well.
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08:19 < kanzure> "Ligero: Lightweight sublinear arguments without a trusted setup" http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/snarks/Ligero:%20Lightweight%20sublinear%20arguments%20without%20a%20trusted%20setup%20-%202017.pdf
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11:17 < kewde[m]> Is anyone aware of a standard/convention for ordering pubkeys in a multisignature redeem script? BIP69 is crystal clear at the transactional level, but ambigious about the ordering  within a script. I'm going lexographically, but ping me if that's not the case. The only other (reasonable) ordering is randomized which seems to go against the spirit of BIP69.
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11:26 < gmaxwell> I don't think BIP69 is a good idea regardless.
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11:27 < waxwing> gmaxwell, provost did make a fair comment about that: in a scenario where you want to know it's been chosen by a specific (and meaningless) algo, BIP69 in txs has the advantage that it's externally verifiable that BIP69 has been used.
11:28 < waxwing> (talking about txs, coinjoins specifically, not multisig so apologies for dragging off the topic kewde[m] )
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11:30 < gmaxwell> waxwing: yes but you could make your order random based on a seed known to your case.
11:31 < gmaxwell> 69 also unfortunately proscribes a particular order that is potentially incompatible with some use cases.
11:32 < waxwing> ok on the first point. but curious what the second point is (incompatibility)
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11:32 < gmaxwell> For example, people have proposed sighash flags that privleged placement (like ones that signed above inputs but not below), we've also evaluated transaction encoding that make transactions smaller if scriptpubkey reuse is sequential.
11:32 < waxwing> oh right. valid point.
11:35 < waxwing> a standard for multisig, though, that seems like a more compelling argument (for compatibility of different signers), than the idea of bip69 for homogeneity/privacy in tx patterns. i think.
11:37 < gmaxwell> multisig should arguably be ordered so that the keys most likely to sign are first.
11:37 < gmaxwell> because of the stupid trial and error operation inside checksig.
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11:46 < kewde[m]> To the best of my knowledge, copay is one of the most used multisignature wallets? It makes sense to me to blend in with their pattern (for now atleast). A quick peek at their source code seems to indicate that they too are sorting lexographically in bitcore-lib ( https://github.com/bitpay/bitcore-lib/blob/master/lib/address.js#L255 )
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11:49 < arubi> isn't it possible to soft fork the dummy element in multisig to be a bitmap of which keys signed the script?
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12:36 < maaku> kanzure: Put a max-CSV protected relative lock-time path to all of your outputs using a key derived from the Shamir secret share
12:37 < maaku> the preimages necessary to spend are sent to the executor, maybe on a dead-man's switch
12:37 < kanzure> yeah i think we have good solutions for bitcoin, but i was wondering about non-bitcoin secrets (like passwords and other instructions)
12:38 < maaku> incidently this is the first applicatin I've heard of where a greater than 1yr CSV would be desireable
12:39 < maaku> kanzure: put key material in that same dead-mans switch email, which combines with the Shamir secret for a key that ECIES encrypts the data
12:40 < maaku> I don't know how you do this without a dead-man's switch
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13:51 < roasbeef> maaku: so just chain multiple csv transactions to get around that then?
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16:13 < maaku> roasbeef: sure although it's a bit of a hack, especially when you consider the need for fee-bump, etc.
16:13 < maaku> although CLTV would work fine here as well
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--- Log closed Sat Jul 28 00:00:23 2018