--- Log opened Tue Oct 02 00:00:25 2018
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00:57 < kallewoof> waxwing: I'm confused about the whole hash G to get NUMS basepoint. If you JUST take the hash it's not a curve point at all, at least not on the same curve as G.
00:57 < kallewoof> And if you multiply by G you .. know the opening to the commitment to the generator which doesn't sound good.
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01:13 < waxwing> kallewoof, you basically interpret the hash value (32 bytes) as a potential x-coordinate of a curve point
01:14 < kallewoof> waxwing: hm. I tried that and it didn't work for some reason.
01:14 < waxwing> rather than multiply, as you say, that'd be pointless
01:14 < waxwing> well, it won't work about half the time
01:14 < waxwing> because the order of the curve is close to 2^256, and every x coordinate which solves the equation has two valid y values, there are two curve points for every x that fits
01:15 < waxwing> hence, about half of the x values in range have curve points (2 of them), and the others have none
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01:15 < kallewoof> oh. yeah, it worked after a few tries!
01:15 < waxwing> so if you do this 'coerce to point' operation, you have a ~ 50% chance of getting it to work each time. One reasonable approach is to do H(G||i)
01:15 < waxwing> where i is a counter and just increment
01:16 < waxwing> of course we've obfuscated exactly how you serialize 'G' in that, but it doens't really matter
01:16 < kallewoof> Got it! Thanks a lot :)
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01:26 < sipa> kallewoof: there also exist algorithms that map onto the curve in constant time, without needing to iterate
01:26 < sipa> though they're much more complicated
01:27 < kallewoof> sipa: good to hear, but wil stick to simple for now :)
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01:34 < sipa> kallewoof: yeah, repeated hashing onto x coordinates in generally how you do it when that's sufficient :)
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03:15 < waxwing> sipa, that's interesting; where is that useful? some kind of CA thing? or oh, maybe bulletproofs with the vector pedersen commitment stuff?
03:16 < sipa> waxwing: we were looking into it for CA, so you can construct assets in constant time
03:16 < sipa> "Indifferentiable hashing to Barreto-Naehrig curves"
03:17 < waxwing> ah ok, thanks
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03:34 < maaku> why repeated hashing and not just increment the x coord after the first hash until you get something on the curve?
03:35 < sipa> maaku: biased output
03:36 < sipa> if you have a gap of N consecutive non-valid x coordinates, the next one has n times higher probability of being chosen
03:41 < maaku> ok that's enough reason, but out of curiousity is that exploitable or a theoretical concern?
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03:45 < sipa> maaku: i think it may be theoretical only
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07:39 < fkinglag> hackaday talkin shit again https://hackaday.com/2018/10/02/bitcoins-double-spending-flaw-was-hush-hush-during-rollout/
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--- Log closed Wed Oct 03 00:00:26 2018