--- Log opened Tue Oct 02 00:00:25 2018 00:01 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:04 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:08 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:18 -!- PaulTroon_ [~Paul@h-5-150-248-150.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:37 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:42 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:57 < kallewoof> waxwing: I'm confused about the whole hash G to get NUMS basepoint. If you JUST take the hash it's not a curve point at all, at least not on the same curve as G. 00:57 < kallewoof> And if you multiply by G you .. know the opening to the commitment to the generator which doesn't sound good. 01:01 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:13 < waxwing> kallewoof, you basically interpret the hash value (32 bytes) as a potential x-coordinate of a curve point 01:14 < kallewoof> waxwing: hm. I tried that and it didn't work for some reason. 01:14 < waxwing> rather than multiply, as you say, that'd be pointless 01:14 < waxwing> well, it won't work about half the time 01:14 < waxwing> because the order of the curve is close to 2^256, and every x coordinate which solves the equation has two valid y values, there are two curve points for every x that fits 01:15 < waxwing> hence, about half of the x values in range have curve points (2 of them), and the others have none 01:15 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:15 < kallewoof> oh. yeah, it worked after a few tries! 01:15 < waxwing> so if you do this 'coerce to point' operation, you have a ~ 50% chance of getting it to work each time. One reasonable approach is to do H(G||i) 01:15 < waxwing> where i is a counter and just increment 01:16 < waxwing> of course we've obfuscated exactly how you serialize 'G' in that, but it doens't really matter 01:16 < kallewoof> Got it! Thanks a lot :) 01:18 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:20 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:20 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26 < sipa> kallewoof: there also exist algorithms that map onto the curve in constant time, without needing to iterate 01:26 < sipa> though they're much more complicated 01:27 < kallewoof> sipa: good to hear, but wil stick to simple for now :) 01:27 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:48b1:c63b:b6ad:bc5b] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:29 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@gateway/tor-sasl/thrmo] has quit [Quit: Waiting for .007] 01:32 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:34 < sipa> kallewoof: yeah, repeated hashing onto x coordinates in generally how you do it when that's sufficient :) 01:43 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:48 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@62.112.9.237] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:02 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:05 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:09 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:10 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:11 -!- funkenstein_ [~latitude@unaffiliated/funkenstein] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:15 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:28 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@gateway/tor-sasl/thrmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:37 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:39 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:07 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:12 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:15 < waxwing> sipa, that's interesting; where is that useful? some kind of CA thing? or oh, maybe bulletproofs with the vector pedersen commitment stuff? 03:16 < sipa> waxwing: we were looking into it for CA, so you can construct assets in constant time 03:16 < sipa> "Indifferentiable hashing to Barreto-Naehrig curves" 03:17 < waxwing> ah ok, thanks 03:20 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@62.112.9.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:34 < maaku> why repeated hashing and not just increment the x coord after the first hash until you get something on the curve? 03:35 < sipa> maaku: biased output 03:36 < sipa> if you have a gap of N consecutive non-valid x coordinates, the next one has n times higher probability of being chosen 03:41 < maaku> ok that's enough reason, but out of curiousity is that exploitable or a theoretical concern? 03:42 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:44 -!- funkenstein_ [~latitude@unaffiliated/funkenstein] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:45 < sipa> maaku: i think it may be theoretical only 03:47 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:55 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:55 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:05 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has quit [Quit: o/] 04:07 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:45 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:59 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:04 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@172.83.40.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:11 -!- 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