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(www.adiirc.com)] 06:16 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:17 -!- nuncanada [~dude@187.65.68.135] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:15 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:20 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:32 -!- treyzania_ [~treyzania@paphos.tr3y.io] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.6 - http://znc.in] 07:32 -!- treyzania [~treyzania@paphos.tr3y.io] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:43 -!- nuncanada [~dude@187.65.68.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:46 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:47 < waxwing> https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/939.pdf <-- proof of work for solving discrete logs 07:58 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:16 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:16 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:17 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 08:26 < uiuc-slack> test 08:27 < uiuc-slack> what makes solving discrete log "useful" as a PoW mechanism? 08:34 < waxwing> progress the art of cryptanalysis? i think they see it as a bounty on the DL problem which ofc is .. very important, so knowing how well people can approximate cracking it is useful in some sense. 08:37 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:43 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-179-006-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:43 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-176-047-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:45 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:50 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:51 < nsh> (the utility is the difficulty) 09:00 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:24 -!- wildermind [uid300433@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-laeyqcdektbfcidd] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:30 -!- Murch [~murch@50-200-105-218-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:39 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:540e:835b:b344:b457] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:39 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:540e:835b:b344:b457] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:41 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:46 -!- erwanou [~eatounno@ubuntu1604-008.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:01 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:03 -!- Guest68522 [~schmidty@104-7-216-111.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:03 -!- schmidty [~schmidty@104-7-216-111.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:04 -!- schmidty [~schmidty@104-7-216-111.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:04 -!- schmidty [~schmidty@unaffiliated/schmidty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:17 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has quit [Quit: o/] 10:35 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:39 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:22 -!- Murch [~murch@50-200-105-218-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 12:05 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:08 < maaku> suryab: a ticking time-lock encryption 12:09 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:18 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:47 -!- murchandamus1 [~murchghos@ghostdub.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:48 -!- murchandamus1 [~murchghos@ghostdub.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:11 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:16 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:35 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:39 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:47 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:06 -!- son0p [~ff@190.240.56.104] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:17 -!- son0p [~ff@190.240.56.104] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:17 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 14:18 -!- son0p [~ff@190.240.56.104] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:23 < maaku> http://freico.in/forward-blocks-scalingbitcoin-paper.pdf 14:23 < maaku> "Forward Blocks: On-chain/settlement capacity increases without the hard fork." 14:25 < stevenroose> maaku: wait, is that new? 14:26 < stevenroose> Document says created an hour or two (exactly 1 or 2, it's UTC not sure which one :D).. 14:44 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:540e:835b:b344:b457] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:540e:835b:b344:b457] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:05 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:10 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:33 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47 -!- _tin [~tyn@om126229080091.12.openmobile.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:48 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:03 -!- son0p [~ff@190.240.56.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31 < kanzure> stevenroose: it will be presented at scalingbitcoin 16:35 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:38 < stevenroose> kanzure: I figured from the file name :) 16:38 < stevenroose> kanzure: wait, WolframAlpha tells me the first talk there started 7 minutes ago? 16:40 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50 < gmaxwell> Right now, nodes could have a hurestic to prefer to orphan empty blocks (e.g.) in races... but this behavior isn't incentive compatible, since mining a block in a chain with a recent empty block will result in higher fee income. 16:51 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@136.243.139.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51 < gmaxwell> I wonder if Bitcoin had a consensus rule that after an significantly underfilled block the following block could not be more than a certian size, if that would make a rule to prefer to orphan empty blocks incentive compatible. 16:51 -!- Noldorin_ [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:52 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@136.243.139.96] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:11 < aj> gmaxwell: i guess you're relying onthe mempool having enough tx's to fill about two blocks at the time you'd mine on top of the underfilled block, otherwise the orphaning block would empty the mempool and building a limited block on the empty block would work better 17:12 < maaku> aj: if the mempool is (approx) empty, then what's the point of caring? 17:13 < gmaxwell> aj: if the mempool doesn't have a backlog it doesn't much matter one way or another. 17:13 < aj> maaku: mempool is approx empty most of the time these days :-/ 17:14 < gmaxwell> (and that creates its own problems independantly-- so I think it's okay to ignore that for the moment for the purpose of discussion) 17:16 < maaku> aj: I'm not being nihilistic, rather saying the same as gmaxwell.. in circumstances where there are not enough transactions to fill a block anyway, it stops mattering anyway 17:16 < gmaxwell> Essentially, I guess my question is, -- is there some simple scheme that will make making an empty block unattractive enough that they won't pretty much won't happen, without making it interesting to produce them as a pure attack... "prefer to extend the chain with the most confirmed txn in a tie" or similar would work if everyone went along with it, but isn't incentive compatible: you'd earn 17:16 < gmaxwell> more fees by extending the chain with the empties. 17:17 < aj> gmaxwell: i wonder if that would lower the block size effectively (rather than reducing empty blocks as intended), so it would result in actual fee pressure 17:17 < gmaxwell> if a block is empty because there just aren't enough txn outstanding, well thats fine-- then also limiting the size of the next block won't likely hurt (much). 17:20 < aj> gmaxwell: so, empty block gets 12.5 btc, next block gets either 12.7 btc (fees at 1% of reward atm) by orphaning and hoping, or 12.56 btc by buildig a 2M-weight block instead, which slows down tx acceptance (0+2 Mweight vs 4+4 Mweight) so fee estimates rise, despite say 10 or 20 Mweight of txes in mempool 17:21 < aj> gmaxwell: fees as a significant %ge of block reward seem like the way to make people care about accepting txs :-/ 17:26 < gmaxwell> aj: yes, so long as capacity isn't overprovisioned, the problem is probably largely self-solving. 17:29 < gmaxwell> aj: that was generally my thought, -- the analysis is complicated by the fact that you should consider the third and later blocks: does he extend [empty] [half] or [full], etc. 17:31 -!- IGHOR [~quassel@93.178.216.72] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org ? ??????????? ?????????. ????-??.] 17:33 -!- wildermind [uid300433@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-laeyqcdektbfcidd] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:36 -!- mdrollette [~mdrollett@feynman.drollette.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in] 17:38 -!- IGHOR [~quassel@93.178.216.72] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:57 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:18 -!- aguycalled_ [~user@unaffiliated/aguycalled] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19 -!- aguycalled [~user@unaffiliated/aguycalled] has joined 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the connection] 23:09 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:df0:eb:2f00:5c41:6d2e:c876:dcb0] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:16 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:df0:eb:2f00:5c41:6d2e:c876:dcb0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:df0:eb:2f00:5c41:6d2e:c876:dcb0] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:21 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:df0:eb:2f00:5c41:6d2e:c876:dcb0] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:23 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:df0:eb:2f00:dd4e:da86:3bfc:156] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:27 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:df0:eb:2f00:dd4e:da86:3bfc:156] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:28 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:37 < jl2012> maaku: haven't fully read your paper, but you can expand your safe single op-code list by putting it between the witness version byte and witness program 23:39 < jl2012> that includes 16 more codes: TOALTSTACK, IFDUP, DROP, DUP, SIZE, 1ADD, 1SUB, NEGATE, ABS, NOT, 0NOTEQUAL, RIPEMD160, SHA1, SHA256, HASH160, HASH256 23:41 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:df0:eb:2f00:dd4e:da86:3bfc:156] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:45 -!- licnep [uid4387@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nkboehcviztbkwbw] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:58 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:df0:eb:2f00:dd4e:da86:3bfc:156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:df0:eb:2f00:dd4e:da86:3bfc:156] has joined #bitcoin-wizards --- Log closed Sat Oct 06 00:00:29 2018