--- Log opened Tue Oct 23 00:00:45 2018 00:01 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:01 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:04 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:04 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:18 -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24 -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:33 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:33 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@185.227.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:40 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2600:1700:be50:323f:d99:f9ee:827e:b02] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:41 -!- Krellan_ [~Krellan@2600:1700:be50:323f:8c2e:2f08:f84:9257] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:43 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@2a00:23c4:8462:1a00:21d4:fdb9:33f9:2eab] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:43 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@185.227.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [] 00:44 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@185.227.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:45 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2600:1700:be50:323f:d99:f9ee:827e:b02] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:58 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:59 -!- wfbarksdale [~wfbarksda@136.25.187.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:18 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@185.242.6.5] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:21 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@185.242.6.5] has quit [Client Quit] 01:34 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:38 -!- bitjedi_ [bitjedi@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dlwnnlexomxlkbpj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:38 -!- bitjedi_ [bitjedi_@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sooiwextownmvjtl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:44 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:48 -!- OzPac [~OzPac@cpc110789-lewi20-2-0-cust636.2-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:15 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@185.227.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@185.227.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:20 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@185.227.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@185.227.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:23 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@2a00:23c4:8462:1a00:21d4:fdb9:33f9:2eab] has quit [Quit: Sleep mode] 02:36 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:46 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@gateway/tor-sasl/thrmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:46 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@82-132-222-86.dab.02.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:49 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@185.242.6.5] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:10 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@gateway/tor-sasl/thrmo] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:11 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 03:18 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@gateway/tor-sasl/thrmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:19 < musalbas> I came across this paper that proposes doing so using algebraic vector commitments that I think may be worth discussing. 03:19 < musalbas> The crux of the paper is that if you commit to the state using algebraic vector commitments, and you want to achieve stateless validation, then you can make it possible for Alice to send money to Bob, and only provide the proof of Alice’s balance. With a Merkle tree, you’d also need to provide proof of Bob’s balance. This may be nice, because that means everyone one needs to store their own state; Alice doesn’t need 03:20 < musalbas> to know Bob’s state. However, it appears to require a trusted setup. 03:20 < musalbas> https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/968 03:20 < musalbas> proposing committing to state and doing stateless validation* 03:22 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:23 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-73-170-56-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:24 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@185.242.6.5] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 03:28 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-73-170-56-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:30 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:30 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@gateway/tor-sasl/thrmo] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:34 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@gateway/tor-sasl/thrmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:38 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:53 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@gateway/tor-sasl/thrmo] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:01 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@gateway/tor-sasl/thrmo] has joined 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intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:02 -!- douglas_ [~douglas@c-24-34-137-83.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:05 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@82-132-222-86.dab.02.net] has quit [Quit: Sleep mode] 05:06 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@82-132-222-86.dab.02.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:18 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@82-132-222-86.dab.02.net] has quit [Quit: Sleep mode] 05:22 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@82-132-222-86.dab.02.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:23 -!- _Sam-- [greybits@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/sam--/x-37783179] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:23 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-73-170-56-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:28 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-73-170-56-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:32 -!- IGHOR [~quassel@93.178.216.72] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org ? ??????????? ?????????. ????-??.] 05:38 -!- douglas_ [~douglas@c-24-34-137-83.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:38 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-24-34-137-83.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:46 -!- meeh [~meeh@193.150.121.78] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:47 < nsh> musalbas, bulletproofs uses vector commitments 05:47 < nsh> and algebraic properties thereof 05:49 < nsh> so maybe trusted setup can be obviated through pederson arithmetic properties but you have to find a way to boil it down to parity/equity/nonce-cancellation 05:50 < nsh> in mean isn't a putative bulletproofs coin kinda stateless in the same way they describe in that abstract as would be a MW chain 05:50 < nsh> UTXO is subsumed in the 'excesses' carried forward that ensure the parity can be validated after every block 05:50 < nsh> i'm possibly misrepresenting 05:58 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:58 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined 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has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:28 -!- reallll is now known as belcher_ 12:46 -!- elroyjetson [45aa2efe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.170.46.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:59 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:02 -!- OzPac [~OzPac@cpc110789-lewi20-2-0-cust636.2-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: OzPac] 13:03 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@dsl-trebng21-58c19c-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:03 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-73-170-56-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:07 -!- floam412 [~floam412@unaffiliated/floam412] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:08 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-73-170-56-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:23 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:25 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@dsl-trebng21-58c19c-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:27 < nsh> there's something especially weaselly btw about the phrasing "up to approximately two orders of magnitude" 13:27 < nsh> the point of orders of magnitude as a concept is to be sufficiently weaselly 13:27 -!- floam412 [~floam412@unaffiliated/floam412] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:27 < nsh> putting "approximately two" in front of it just wracks of notgreatness 13:27 < nsh> (re: https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/968.pdf ) 13:28 < waxwing> in astrophysics OOM^2 (an oom of an oom) is considered pretty decent accuracy :) 13:28 < gmaxwell> iohk, presses close. 13:29 * gmaxwell doesn't waste time reading publications put out by outright scammers. 13:29 < nsh> which author(s), so i know in future? 13:30 < gmaxwell> anything with an IOHK email address, thats a org made by the protoshares guy, basically mills out ultrascammy altcoins. 13:30 < gmaxwell> After doing ethereum he even wrote a long bragging essay about what a rip off all these altcoins are. 13:31 < waxwing> gmaxwell, yeah but: it's just a paper :) it's not like a .. "whitepaper". also said person is not an author here. kinda silly to bring that in to it (even if i tend to agree) 13:32 < gmaxwell> I dunno, I don't think that we do the world any good to enable fraudsters by paying attention to their work, and they shouldn't be able to wash their way out of it by paying people to do their next scam. 13:32 < gmaxwell> But thats just my call. ::shrugs:: 13:33 * nsh nods agreement 13:33 < gmaxwell> Perhaps my opinion would have been different if the first iohk publications I saw weren't also dishonest bullshit themselves. (fradulently claiming POS with equal security properties to POW) 13:34 < midnightmagic> never heard that one before 13:49 -!- floam412 [~floam412@unaffiliated/floam412] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:12 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:15 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:02 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 15:09 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! 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