--- Log opened Sun Feb 03 00:00:39 2019 00:02 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:08 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:13 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:15 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:36 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:42 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:48 -!- nephyrin [~neph@2601:600:817f:a19a:a5cf:8446:c53:57b2] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:51 -!- nephyrin [~neph@2601:600:817f:a19a:a5cf:8446:c53:57b2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:05 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 01:06 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:08 -!- nephyrin [~neph@2601:600:817f:a19a:a5cf:8446:c53:57b2] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:11 -!- nephyrin [~neph@2601:600:817f:a19a:a5cf:8446:c53:57b2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:16 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:16 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:19 -!- jtimon [~quassel@92.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:25 -!- nephyrin [~neph@2601:600:817f:a19a:a5cf:8446:c53:57b2] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:31 -!- nephyrin [~neph@2601:600:817f:a19a:a5cf:8446:c53:57b2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:41 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:41 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 02:41 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vqxkluwlhqapexpw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:45 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:47 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:57 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:15 -!- a87ry5 [~a87ry5@66.55.147.60] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:17 < a87ry5> gmaxwell: can you explain how the introduction of NOPs was not actually a hard fork? I understand the supposition that prior to 0.3.6 unknown OPs were treated as NOPs are now, but where in the code can that be gleaned exactly? 04:50 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vqxkluwlhqapexpw] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:53 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:55 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:57 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:08 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:18 -!- riclas [riclas@148.63.37.111] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:33 -!- a87ry5 [~a87ry5@66.55.147.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:41 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:27 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:29 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:29 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:53 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:09 -!- fabianfabian [~fabianfab@D9656CCE.cm-27.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:53 -!- fabianfabian [~fabianfab@D9656CCE.cm-27.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 08:15 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:15 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:37 -!- nephyrin [~neph@2601:600:817f:a19a:a5cf:8446:c53:57b2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:41 -!- nephyrin [~neph@2601:600:817f:a19a:a5cf:8446:c53:57b2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:43 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:49 -!- fabianfabian [~fabianfab@D9656CCE.cm-27.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:58 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05 -!- so [~so@unaffiliated/so] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:06 -!- jtimon [~quassel@92.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:10 -!- so [~so@unaffiliated/so] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:11 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:21 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:24 -!- smk [c7e5f98d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.229.249.141] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:33 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:56 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:57 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:15 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:17 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:22 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 10:32 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:36 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 10:39 -!- smk [c7e5f98d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.229.249.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:46 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:00 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:05 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xvuryaugqzgtcvrr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:09 < andytoshi> does anyone remember an old quote from a zcash(?) developer about the risk of crypto inflation bugs, to the effect that (a) bugs in the math should be caught by peer review; (b) bugs in the implementation should result in detectably-bad proofs getting through, so such things can be soft-forked out as they are discovered 11:10 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:12 < sarang> That would seem to run counter to their Sprout-to-Sapling migration strategy, if I'm understanding the context correctly 11:13 < andytoshi> yeah, i can't remember the exact quote or even what the exact argument was, i'm curious how it holds up in light of the last few years of experience 11:21 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:39 -!- jtimon [~quassel@92.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:53 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:08 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-176-118-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:16 < riclas> does anyone have a good description of the DDoS problem with dandelion's current implementation? the github PT statement is not very descriptive 12:19 < sarang> link? 12:20 < riclas> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13947 12:20 < riclas> *PR 12:21 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:22 < riclas> it seems the problem was discussed on irc, i guess, i'm reading sdaftuar's message as "the problem". but no direct info there 12:23 < sarang> I would be interested to know what specifically is at play. That thread mentions DoS during the stem phase 12:24 < riclas> right, that's the only mention 12:25 < sarang> Presumably a DoS in the fluff phase is functionally identical to what would happen currently 12:28 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-176-118-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-176-118-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:32 < sipa> correct 12:33 < sipa> the core issue is that in bitcoin core's mempool implementation we make the assumption that transactions which get accepted into the mempool eventually get confirmed, and thus pay a fee, which can be enforced to be incremented whenever something replaces something else 12:34 < sipa> but i can't remember the exact details of the conversation we had about it 12:39 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 12:41 -!- sipa [~pw@gateway/tor-sasl/sipa1024] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:43 -!- sipa [~pw@gateway/tor-sasl/sipa1024] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:45 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:49 < riclas> the most recent paper on the issue says to use an embargo map (i guess that's the same as the stempool i've heard before) 12:58 < sarang> sipa: I don't really see how that affects the stempool separately 13:01 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 13:04 < gmaxwell> IIRC That PR just has no protection at all: you can flow an unlimited amount of traffic through stem relay without paying any fees. 13:07 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:12 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:14 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xvuryaugqzgtcvrr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:22 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 13:25 -!- marcoagner [~user@2001:8a0:fee8:9001:f21d:827f:7aa5:c011] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:27 -!- sn0wmonster [~yeti@taskhive/lead/sn0wmonster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:41 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:44 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:54 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:03 -!- fabianfabian [~fabianfab@D9656CCE.cm-27.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 14:04 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:06 < gleb> I was discussing this with someone at the conference, and then a grin developer approached me: "What kind of DoS? Grin node software has dandelion implemented". Perhaps we should just ask Albus Dumbledore to help us with dandelion challenges in bitcoin :) 14:08 -!- TvdBuurt [~TvdBuurt9@2a02:a444:67b0:1:4172:22bd:7189:81a0] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:08 < gmaxwell> it isn't news that altcoins are reckless and don't care about actually being robust.. :) 14:09 < gmaxwell> There isn't any fundimental challenge here AFAIK, it's just a software engineering question. 14:10 < sipa> if we're fine with memory usage bounded by mempoolsize*peers it's easy :) 14:10 < gmaxwell> We could simply have three complete mempools in bitcoin core (the public one, and one private one for each dandilion output peer) , if we were willing to tolerate the additional memory use and slowness removing confirmed transactions when connecting blocks. 14:11 < sipa> one per input peer, no? 14:11 < gmaxwell> hm. I thought we could apply them per output peer, no? 14:11 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 14:11 < gmaxwell> like a dandelion tx comes in, you see which output peer it would use, and use that output peer's mempool. 14:11 < sipa> hmm, possibly 14:12 < gmaxwell> In any case, 'just a constant factor difference' between your and my 'solutions'. 14:12 < gmaxwell> But they're both unattractive. 14:14 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:15 -!- wildermind [uid300433@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmkfbowkwghzjjam] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:15 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:29 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:29 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:29 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:32 -!- sakalli_ [~Mutter@91-155-115-184.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:34 -!- sakalli_ [~Mutter@91-155-115-184.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 14:50 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:04 -!- TvdBuurt [~TvdBuurt9@2a02:a444:67b0:1:4172:22bd:7189:81a0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:04 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 15:07 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:35 < riclas> ah! found the discussion from you 2 on the issue: http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/2018-08-12.log 15:36 < riclas> botbot isn't working, took a while eheh 15:38 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:42 -!- Zenton [~user@unaffiliated/vicenteh] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:42 < gleb> riclas: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/81503/what-is-the-tradeoff-between-privacy-and-implementation-complexity-of-dandelion seen this? 15:44 < riclas> nope. thank you 15:48 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:49 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@unaffiliated/dizzle] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:53 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:54 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:08 -!- bitcoin-wizards5 [827eff24@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.126.255.36] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:10 -!- bitcoin-wizards5 [827eff24@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.126.255.36] has quit [Client Quit] 16:25 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:32 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:33 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33 -!- rusty2 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:36 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:41 -!- wildermind [uid300433@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmkfbowkwghzjjam] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:00 -!- rusty2 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:01 -!- Jbaczuk [~Jbaczuk@ec2-18-237-204-133.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:15 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:27 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:30 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 17:56 -!- riclas [riclas@148.63.37.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:12 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 18:34 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:36 < gmaxwell> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2091860.msg49574549#msg49574549 I posted some pictures of my bitcoin sat rx setup. 18:37 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:42 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:57 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:59 < Dizzle> nice, thanks for sharing 19:00 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-87-79-145-125.nc.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:00 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-87-79-145-125.nc.de] has quit [Changing host] 19:00 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:17 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 19:18 -!- rusty2 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:22 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] 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