--- Log opened Thu Apr 18 00:00:48 2019
00:06 -!- jmabsd [~quassel@14-0-169-014.static.pccw-hkt.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:21 < sipa> Blackwolfsa: just adding the commitments will do that
00:24 < sipa> pedersen commitments are linear in both the value and the blinding factor
00:24 < sipa> no need for any bulletproof, or even a third oartt
00:24 < sipa> *third party
00:25 -!- harding [~quassel@li1258-130.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
00:34 -!- harding [~quassel@li1258-130.members.linode.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:38 < Blackwolfsa> I want have the trusted 3rd party add an additional blinding factor to the commitment
00:39 < Blackwolfsa> So from the party of 3, they know there commitment is in there, but no one else does
00:41 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@185.227.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:41 < Blackwolfsa> From a perspective of anyone else, they should just see a normal pedersen commitment with a bulletproof they can validate. They should not know it was combined
00:41 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:57 < sipa> Blackwolfsa: so you have P1=(r1G+v1H) and P2=(r2G+v2H), and you want to compute P = (r1+r2+r3)G + (v1+v2)H, and prove P is a commitment to the sum of the values of P1 and P2, without knowing what those values are?
01:06 < Blackwolfsa> yes
01:07 < sipa> it'd be trivial in a bulletproof, but you can't construct one without knowing v1 and v2
01:08 < sipa> oh; this is very easy
01:08 < sipa> compute R3 = r3G, and give a Schnorr signature for R3 (which proves it's a straight known multiple of G)
01:08 < Blackwolfsa> I am going by that this will be an interactive process and we can/have valid bulletproofs for P1 and P2
01:08 < sipa> and then P = P1+P2+R
01:09 < gmaxwell> sipa: that was also my thought but I was holding my tongue since I figured there must be something excluding doing the obvious thing...
01:09 < Blackwolfsa> what will you submit to the baselayer then?
01:09 < sipa> what does baselayer mean?
01:10 < Blackwolfsa> sorry, typing faster than my thoughts can complete here.
01:10 < Blackwolfsa> You need to submit this P3 with some bullet proof so that the verifier does not know its a collection of commitments
01:10 < sipa> a caveat here is that the verifier (the party checking the proof) needs to see P1 and P2; i don't think that can be avoided
01:11 < Blackwolfsa> Yeah thats something I am trying to avoid
01:11 < sipa> i suspect that it's impossible, unless the prover knows v1/v2/r1/r2
01:11 < gmaxwell> sipa: but verifying what.
01:11 < gmaxwell> What are they verifying.
01:12 < sipa> yeah... that's a good question :)
01:12 < gmaxwell> are they verifying P3 is a sum of some specific P1 and P2 ? then them needing to see it is true by definition.
01:12 < sipa> if the verifier doesn't know P1 and P2, there isn't much to prove
01:12 < gmaxwell> Are they verifying that is a possible some of some unspecified P1 and P2?  thats tautologically true by virtue of the group behavior.
01:13 < Blackwolfsa> They are verifying only wants to proof that P3 is valid and that the value inside P3 is greater than 0
01:13 < sipa> ah!
01:13 < sipa> that's something else
01:13 < gmaxwell> All points are valid, so beyond just checking that it's actually a point the first half is automatically true.
01:13 < sipa> i suspect that's not possible without knowing v1 and v2
01:14 < Blackwolfsa> for more context I am looking in payment channels for mimblewimble
01:14 < sipa> unless you're given proofs for P1 and P2, and then combine them using a recursive bulletproof
01:14  * sipa hides
01:14 < gmaxwell> sipa: sure it is.
01:14 < Blackwolfsa> the idea being P3 should be a valid mw utxo
01:15 < sipa> you can show that P3 is a reblinded sum of P1 and P2, if the verifier knows P1 and P2
01:15 < sipa> or if you know the values/blinding factors of P1 and P2, you can just construct a new bulletproof for whatever the sum is
01:16 < gmaxwell> You can also show P3 is in range by showing reblindlings P1' and P2' are in range.
01:16 < sipa> right, but not without knowing value/blindingfactor of P1 and P2
01:17 < gmaxwell> a bullet proof can also be privately multiparty computed.
01:17 < Blackwolfsa> so this is not at all possible without knowing P1 and P2
01:17 < sipa> Blackwolfsa: perhaps if the prover is given some extra auxiliary data about P1 and P2... i'm not sure
01:18 < Blackwolfsa> I am going by the assumption that P3 is constructed between the 3 parties privately (ie sharing some data) and then only submitting a final P3 and bulletproof together
01:19 < Blackwolfsa> The only thing is no single party should know all the v's and r's
01:19 < Blackwolfsa> If you create a bulletproof for (vH + (r1 + r2)G) you share the T1,T2,tx and neither know r1 and r2.
01:22 -!- jmabsd [~quassel@14-0-169-014.static.pccw-hkt.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
01:38 -!- jmabsd [~quassel@14-0-169-014.static.pccw-hkt.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:48 -!- neonknight64 [~neonknigh@195.159.29.126] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:49 -!- stanimal [~stanimal@195.159.29.126] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:49 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:51 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:01 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:17 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:02 -!- midnightmagic [~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:07 -!- jmabsd [~quassel@14-0-169-014.static.pccw-hkt.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:09 < clefru> Blackwolfsa: I am sure that you have seen Dandelion transaction propagation in Mimblewimble blockchains, that claim to also mix with other transactions. I would assume that they would neat a mixing for the rangeproof parts as well. At least transaction mixing is claimed by beam-mw https://medium.com/beam-mw/about-dandelion-and-mimblewimble-e083597e0355
03:10 < clefru> neat=need.
03:15 < clefru> I guess that this just implements cut-through, not really an aggregation as you want it.
03:22 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
03:27 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:37 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:47 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:55 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:57 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
04:12 -!- strattog [~strattog@185.103.96.135] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:13 -!- strattog [~strattog@185.103.96.135] has quit [Client Quit]
04:22 -!- T-Junk [~T-Junk@89.249.74.213] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:38 < Blackwolfsa> Yeah dandelion doesn't do what I want.
04:52 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:00 -!- T-Junk [~T-Junk@89.249.74.213] has quit []
05:02 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
05:20 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Excess Flood]
05:22 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:32 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:35 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:52 -!- whartung1 [~whartung@185.5.172.147] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:30 -!- fkinglag [~fkinglag@unaffiliated/fkinglag] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:30 -!- fkinglag [~fkinglag@unaffiliated/fkinglag] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:42 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:11 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:14 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:16 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
07:20 -!- clefru [~clemens@unaffiliated/clefru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
07:25 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:47 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:51 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:55 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
08:00 -!- whartung1 [~whartung@185.5.172.147] has quit []
08:00 -!- _Sam-- [~greybits@unaffiliated/greybits] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:04 -!- matael1 [~matael@89.238.178.75] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:23 -!- morcos_ [~morcos@gateway/tor-sasl/morcos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:26 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has quit [Quit: o/]
08:27 -!- morcos [~morcos@gateway/tor-sasl/morcos] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
08:27 -!- morcos_ is now known as morcos
08:31 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz]
09:03 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:26 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
09:30 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
09:35 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:53 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@185.227.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
10:09 -!- Aaronvan_ is now known as AaronvanW
10:21 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:23 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:33 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:40 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:52 -!- chmod755 [~chmod755@unaffiliated/chmod755] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:00 -!- matael1 [~matael@89.238.178.75] has quit []
11:05 -!- Jayflux [~Jayflux@185.178.49.150] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:21 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:28 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:32 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
11:54 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:57 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
11:58 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@78-22-87-51.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:00 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:01 -!- jonasschnelli_ is now known as jonasschnelli
12:04 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
12:08 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
12:56 -!- chmod755 [~chmod755@unaffiliated/chmod755] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
13:30 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
13:50 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:00 -!- Jayflux [~Jayflux@185.178.49.150] has quit []
14:13 -!- fabianfabian [~fabianfab@94-209-115-52.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:18 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
14:21 -!- CrystalNice [~CrystalNi@184.75.223.195] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:45 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:47 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:49 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:51 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:51 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Excess Flood]
15:52 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:53 -!- fabianfabian [~fabianfab@94-209-115-52.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
15:54 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
15:57 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
15:59 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Excess Flood]
16:02 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:02 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:27 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:33 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:40 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:49 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
16:56 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:00 -!- CrystalNice [~CrystalNi@184.75.223.195] has quit []
17:04 -!- Mister_X1 [~Mister_X@185.178.49.150] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:12 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:24 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@78-22-87-51.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:29 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
17:37 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
18:14 -!- harding [~quassel@li1258-130.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
18:16 -!- harding [~quassel@li1258-130.members.linode.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:32 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
18:33 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-87-78-47-211.nc.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:33 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-87-78-47-211.nc.de] has quit [Changing host]
18:33 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:36 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:48 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz]
18:49 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:57 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
19:07 -!- jimmysong [~jimmysong@65-36-83-142.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:32 -!- harrymm [~harrymm@209.58.188.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
19:38 -!- gie [~raido@2001:1560:2:0:5461:7658:d545:afa3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:38 -!- gie [~raido@2001:1560:2:0:5461:7658:d545:afa3] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:42 -!- gie [~raido@2001:1560:2:0:5461:7658:d545:afa3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:42 -!- gie [~raido@2001:1560:2:0:5461:7658:d545:afa3] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:49 -!- harrymm [~harrymm@209.58.188.77] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:00 -!- Mister_X1 [~Mister_X@185.178.49.150] has quit []
20:04 -!- ogelbukh [~ogelbukh@185.204.1.185] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:07 -!- morcos [~morcos@gateway/tor-sasl/morcos] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20:11 -!- morcos [~morcos@gateway/tor-sasl/morcos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:30 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:40 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20:47 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:50 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:51 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:17 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:30 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:44 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz]
21:50 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
22:05 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:11 -!- jmabsd [~quassel@14-0-170-197.static.pccw-hkt.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:18 -!- gie [~raido@2001:1560:2:0:5461:7658:d545:afa3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:19 -!- gie [~raido@2001:1560:2:0:5461:7658:d545:afa3] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:20 -!- gie_ [~raido@2001:1560:2:0:5461:7658:d545:afa3] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:23 -!- gie [~raido@2001:1560:2:0:5461:7658:d545:afa3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
22:45 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:00 -!- ogelbukh [~ogelbukh@185.204.1.185] has quit []
23:09 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz]
23:17 -!- Shabbypenguin [~Shabbypen@89.238.178.75] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:32 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:50 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-135-248.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
23:53 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz]
23:56 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
--- Log closed Fri Apr 19 00:00:48 2019