--- Log opened Sun May 12 00:00:10 2019 01:24 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:59 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:00 -!- Guest70345 [~DocScruti@185.103.96.139] has quit [] 02:04 -!- brimstone1 [~brimstone@31.13.191.137] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:18 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:24 -!- wk057 [~wk@unaffiliated/wizkid057] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29 -!- wk057 [~wk@unaffiliated/wizkid057] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:38 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-249-218.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:39 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 03:40 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@165.231.40.35] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:41 -!- 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[~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:26 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@82.102.23.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:29 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:29 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:58 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:08 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:22 -!- Guest43956 [~kayront@zbase.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in] 06:22 -!- kayront [~kayront@zbase.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:23 -!- kayront is now known as Guest20661 06:47 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@82.102.23.84] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:51 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:52 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:53 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:56 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:02 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:03 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:44 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:46 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:47 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:59 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:00 -!- dvratil [~dvratil@89.238.178.75] has quit [] 08:02 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@p2003004CEA0173002FF99070BCC2ACA5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@p5B010D65.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:12 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:15 -!- newz2000 [~newz2000@184.75.223.195] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:16 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.102.219.164] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:16 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.102.219.164] has quit [Changing host] 08:16 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:19 < kanzure> threshold ring signatures https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/774.pdf 08:20 -!- _Sam-- [~greybits@unaffiliated/greybits] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:21 < kanzure> "Colored ring confidential transactions" https://arxiv.org/abs/1807.10554 08:22 < sarang> The method he's speaking about is done differently than kanzure links 08:36 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@82.102.23.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:40 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:15 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:25 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@82.102.23.84] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:27 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@82.102.23.84] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 09:47 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.102.219.164] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:47 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.102.219.164] has quit [Changing host] 09:47 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:58 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:59 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:24 -!- UXlast [5b8489c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.132.137.198] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:26 < UXlast> Is there consensus for CT to be added to bitcoin in the future or is this likely to result in a hard fork? 10:29 < UXlast> or will it not be added? 10:33 < waxwing> UXlast, think it's fair to say no one really knows 10:33 < waxwing> perhaps the best you can say is, if there are certain kinds of improvements in the tech, it could make it more likely to be adopted by virtue of overwhelming consensus. 10:35 < sarang> Although simply moving amounts into Pedersen commitments still presents essentially the same transaction graph, and therefore many of the same issues 10:37 < waxwing> fair point, but nobody's contending that it's a perfect privacy solution. 10:39 < sarang> What I was getting at (poorly) was that it seems to solve only a small portion of the broader problem of privacy/confidentiality, so I question if it'd be worth the trouble 10:47 < UXlast> For total privacy you need ring signatures + CT + anonymous broadcasting, is that right? 10:47 < sarang> Ring signatures can't practically scale to be a full anonymity set 10:48 < UXlast> Can you explain? 10:48 < sarang> Decoy-based approaches using ring signatures pick a small set of previous outputs that includes the true signer 10:49 < sarang> If done without a trusted setup, signing and verification are linear in the size of that set, and proof size (usually) is also linear 10:50 < sarang> You can certainly couple this with one-time addresses and hidden amounts 10:50 < sarang> Approaches like Zerocoin and Zerocash and their successors effectively use the entire set of previous outputs as the anonymity set, but (in those examples) trade that benefit for a trusted setup 10:51 < sarang> (Also note that the original Zerocoin proving system was found to be very broken and should be considered unfit for use) 10:53 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:54 < waxwing> even if you ameliorate or solve the trusted setup, you still have a growing accumulator, right. there are difficult to pin down scalability tradeoffs and security tradeoffs, but the inability to remove old state somehow or other creeps in. i think that's fair? 10:55 < waxwing> perhaps in future that can be solved? it's above my paygrade for sure to know whether that's possible, but perhaps others have opinions. 10:55 < sarang> Well, the size of the current accumulator state can be constant 10:56 < sarang> But you're right about state tracking (as part of new node sync) being an issue, even beyond the scaling of individual transactions with anonymity set size 10:56 < waxwing> ok i get it, think i was just misusing the term 'accumulator' there. i know that's used for a specific crypto construction. 10:58 < sarang> Totally unrelated topic that just came to mind... a long while ago I asked here about the Dandelion++ BIP, and whether it had been updated elsewhere or not... 10:59 < sarang> in the latest version I saw, it assumed a node made a stem-or-fluff decision per transaction, and not per epoch as the paper demands 10:59 < sarang> Any knowledge here about that? 11:00 -!- newz2000 [~newz2000@184.75.223.195] has quit [] 11:05 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:13 -!- Chefe 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(www.adiirc.com)] 13:47 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@82.102.23.84] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:00 -!- Chefe [~Chefe@165.84.231.15] has quit [] 14:04 -!- Galik [~Galik@84.39.117.57] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:04 -!- Galik is now known as Guest19853 14:05 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:08 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@78-22-87-51.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:28 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@82.102.23.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:36 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 14:46 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@5.252.68.53] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:46 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:46 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:25 -!- Zenton [~user@unaffiliated/vicenteh] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:28 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 15:35 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@5.252.68.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:36 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:41 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 15:49 -!- BlueMatt [~BlueMatt@unaffiliated/bluematt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:49 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:53 -!- BlueMatt [~BlueMatt@unaffiliated/bluematt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:55 -!- charlieday_____ [~Mutter@a109-49-153-104.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:57 -!- charlieday_____ [~Mutter@a109-49-153-104.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 17:00 -!- Guest19853 [~Galik@84.39.117.57] has quit [] 17:04 -!- Avelino [~Avelino@165.84.231.15] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:12 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.22.134.182] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:12 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.22.134.182] has quit [Changing host] 18:12 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:22 < UXlast> To improve scalability andprevent “tyranny of the rich” scenarios, each block is voted on by a small set of coin holders,who are determined as part of the currency’s consensus algorithm. 18:23 < UXlast> This is from https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/asic-faq.pdf 18:24 < UXlast> How does a small set of coin holders voting prevent tyranny of the rich? I feel like I generally understand PoS, but this doesn't make much sense. 18:34 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-73-92-181-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:37 -!- UXlast [5b8489c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.132.137.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:44 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:44 -!- Belkaar_ [~Belkaar@xdsl-87-78-44-126.nc.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:54 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5c60:6276:ccb:3f73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:58 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:05 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:05 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5113:8fe3:aceb:a4a1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:40 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5113:8fe3:aceb:a4a1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:00 -!- Avelino [~Avelino@165.84.231.15] has quit [] 20:04 -!- Antimatter [~Antimatte@89.238.178.75] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:42 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@110.50.148.243] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:00 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@110.50.148.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:04 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5113:8fe3:aceb:a4a1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:09 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5113:8fe3:aceb:a4a1] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 22:16 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@5.79.76.37] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:18 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-73-92-181-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 22:20 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-73-92-181-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:22 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-73-92-181-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:23 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@110.50.148.243] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:36 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@110.50.148.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36 -!- jimmyrizzle [~z@5.79.76.37] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 22:37 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@110.50.148.243] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:41 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@110.50.148.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:52 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-213-127-56-81.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:57 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-213-127-56-81.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:59 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-135-248.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00 -!- Antimatter [~Antimatte@89.238.178.75] has quit [] 23:03 -!- Trasp [~Trasp@31.13.191.137] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:09 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-135-248.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:41 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:53 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] --- Log closed Mon May 13 00:00:11 2019