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04:29 < elichai2> Does anyone know of papers doing crypt analysis of weird PoW algorithms? (those that combine multiple hash functions etc)
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07:53 < instagibbs_> elichai2, why can't I find the writeups about that altcoin that had the 2 PoW functions that got timewarped?
07:53 < instagibbs_> (anyone?)
07:54 < elichai2> If I knew about that i'd tell you :P
07:56 < pinheadmz> instagibbs_: was it verge?
07:57 < pinheadmz> https://coincentral.com/verge-suffers-51-attack-hard-forks-in-response/
07:57 < instagibbs_> ah-hah
07:57 < instagibbs_> I found Vertcoin, which also had a PoW attack, unrelated in the same year
07:57 < instagibbs_> pinheadmz, that's it
07:58 < pinheadmz> they have like 8 PoWs
07:58 < pinheadmz> proof of orgy
07:58 < instagibbs_> elichai2, so there you go, but that's probably not what you meant. You probably meant something like Vertcoin, which has 8 chained hashes...
07:59 < elichai2> instagibbs_: yes
07:59 < elichai2> the question is did they find any advantage or just brute forced?
07:59 < instagibbs_> Is there any papers about that in general? I know people do it in other contexts, f.e., password hashes in db
08:09 < gleb> elichai2: Does it feel difficult to design multi-PoW well in terms of crypto properties? I understand nothing is impossible after what IOTA done to hashing, but still. I would expect it be much more flawed in terms of the cryptoeconomics (asics and pools and all that), while cryptographic part can probably be done right.
08:10 < elichai2> yes. there are theoretical problems: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/11818175_34
08:11 < gleb> also, maybe this is useful: https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/asic-faq.pdf
08:11 < elichai2> I hear people think that finding collisions/advantages in `H_1(H_2(H_3(INPUT)))` is as hard as breaking all of them. but Dan Boneh proved this is *impossible* (impossible to construct an H which is as hard of all the underlying functions)
08:12 < instagibbs_> ok so my gut instinct is "no" there have been no practical attacks on altcoins, because if there were they'd be on cryptographers' triumphant slides
08:12 < elichai2> gleb: well practice show he's FAQ isn't exactly correct. there one very good reason to tweak the PoW algorithm
08:13 < elichai2> making ASICS for coin X not work for coin Y
08:13 < elichai2> instagibbs_: yeah that's what I think, the fact that the only paper i've found is from 2006 seems like no one really cares / think it's worth the effort
08:14 < instagibbs_> long tail altcoins are just cheaper to attack the good ol' fashioned way
08:14 < elichai2> yep
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 26 00:00:19 2019