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08:53 < nehan_> kanzure: "if a hashrate adversary rewrites old blocks (but not the tip of the blockchain due to hashrate-infeasibility of doing so)" <-- what does this mean? how would one rewrite old blocks without changing tip?
08:54 < sipa> nehan_: i believe he means by not producing enough total work to exceed the tip's
08:55 < gmaxwell> thats how I read it.
08:55 < nehan_> ah. thanks!
08:57 < kanzure> if the tip difficulty drops off like a rock, then the older timestamps definitely become worthless.
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09:59 < jeremyrubin> odd question
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10:00 < jeremyrubin> Suppose I have an output that has 500 satoshis in it and script is "OP_TRUE"
10:01 < jeremyrubin> Can someone spending it with the sequence set to disable RBF block someone else from spending it?
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10:11 < sipa> jeremyrubin: to the extent that lack of bip125 replacability can't be circumvented, yes
10:11 < jeremyrubin> hm
10:12 < jeremyrubin> What would you think about ammending opt-in RBF mempool policy to make OP_TRUE scripts "promiscuous"?
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10:12 < jeremyrubin> (and I suppose making them standard out types)
10:13 < jeremyrubin> For context, OP_TRUEs are somewhat useful for specifying an anyone can spend output for use as a CPFP hook
10:13 < sipa> jeremyrubin: how about making all outputs RBFable instead? ;) *duscks*
10:13 < jeremyrubin> I'd be ok with that too; but trying to simulate the mental state of those who care about opt-in rbf
10:14 < jeremyrubin> Which makes for a difficult exercise ;)
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10:22 < gmaxwell> fun fact, bitcoin-scammer-version is reintroducing the original replacement behavior (replace-by-dos-attack). I guess they finally figured out their suckers are just structurally immune to cognitive dissonance by virtue of not possessing too much capacity for cognition in the first place.
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10:22 < gmaxwell> jeremyrubin: I don't think what you're thinking of works to prevent pinning.
10:23 < gmaxwell> jeremyrubin: I create a that spends that output plus also spends some other output. That txn is non-replacable... now your output is pinned, regardless of your exception.
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10:25 < jeremyrubin> I see -- so it would be better to have a longchain contract --> OP_IF <recurse hash, no CSV, add 1 input for gas> CTV OP_ELSE +1 block OP_CSV OP_ENDIG
10:25 < gmaxwell> you'd have to have it make the txn replacable regardless of any other inputs... which would be pretty 'exploitable' (to the extent that you could ever really call unintended replacement a problem)
10:25 < jeremyrubin> this means that it could expand as much as you want within a block to a replica of itself (e.g., all fee spend) and then after 1 block can be swept
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10:26 < jeremyrubin> I don't love the longchain contract but they're kinda cool from a "anyone can add to CPFP this contract" perspective
10:26 < gmaxwell> dunno to tired for think.
10:28 < jeremyrubin> I beleive it would solve the pinning issue, but is annoying from a chain usage perspective
10:28 < jeremyrubin> Maybe we should make having any replaceable parent convey replaceable to child
10:30 < jeremyrubin> That fixes my issue because I can guarantee the OP_TRUE creating txn is detected "replaceable"
10:30 < gmaxwell> thats how the wallet detection behavior works, but I suspect its racy.
10:31 < gmaxwell> like you look right after the parent confirms, and think the child is not replacable, but some other nodes already replaced it before the parent confirmed.
10:32 < jeremyrubin> Ah I see -- it is indeed racy then
10:32 < jeremyrubin> But then that would imply that my current solution works
10:32 < gmaxwell> wallet detection, not replacement logic.
10:32 < jeremyrubin> Ah misread
10:32 < gmaxwell> the replacement won't let you replace a child just because the parent is replacable, AFAIR. I could be mistaken, but I don't think so.
10:33 < gmaxwell> but the wallet will consider the child replacable so long as the parent is unconfirmed.
10:33 < jeremyrubin> Can you replace the parent?
10:33 < gmaxwell> (for the purpose of telling you that its replacable)
10:35 < instagibbs> jeremyrubin, at relay or wallet layer?
10:36 < gmaxwell> oh I'm mistaken, in fact you can also replace the child. It isn't just a wallet behavior.
10:37 < gmaxwell> (of course, all subject to the replacement fee rules... if the child is bloaty it effectively pins it still)
10:38 < jeremyrubin> instagibbs: relay
10:39 < jeremyrubin> Essentially i have these big OP_CTV trees to do batched payments
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10:39 < instagibbs> bip125 allows up to 100 booted transactions per replacement, IIRC
10:39 < jeremyrubin> So I have two tools i'm working on to make it work "nice".
10:39 < instagibbs> the double-spent txn has to signal support for it tho
10:39 < jeremyrubin> One is to add gas outputs every so often in the tree (for ease of understanding, everywhere)
10:40 < jeremyrubin> a gas output is just something that's above the dust limit and anyone can spend it
10:41 < jeremyrubin> The other tool is sequence locking the tree
10:41 < jeremyrubin> So essentially the gas outputs are able to be spent whenever, but the rest of the tree has to wait
10:41 < jeremyrubin> This allows the gas output to be longchained by the highest bidder to percolate CPFP and confirm the root
10:42 < jeremyrubin> and then the 1 step sequence lock expires (or it expires without spending the gas)
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10:44 < jeremyrubin> This makes for some light pinning prevention, but only if the gas is easily replaced with higher bids.
10:44 < jeremyrubin> If someone were to pin the gas, you'd be a bit screwed
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22:58 < Jmabsd> Anyone familiar with "Lelantus"?  A privacy method
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--- Log closed Thu Jan 09 00:00:03 2020