--- Log opened Sat Jan 11 00:00:03 2020 00:35 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.22.135.198] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:35 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.22.135.198] has quit [Changing host] 00:35 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:42 -!- midnight [~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:54 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.83.89.180] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:57 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:00 -!- brycec1 [~brycec@185.204.1.185] has quit [] 01:02 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:14 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.83.89.180] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 01:15 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:17 -!- unfo- [~unfo-@195.206.169.238] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:33 -!- beta-orbiter [~Thunderbi@softbank126209207232.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33 -!- beta-orbiter [~Thunderbi@softbank126209207232.bbtec.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:34 -!- beta-orbiter [~Thunderbi@softbank126209207232.bbtec.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:36 -!- imawhale [~Thunderbi@softbank126209207232.bbtec.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:36 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:37 -!- imawhale [~Thunderbi@softbank126209207232.bbtec.net] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 01:41 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:56 < dr-orlovsky> Sorry for a possible stupid question, but am I right that if we have 256-bit amounts, we can do Pedersen commitments w/o any range proofs & risking to have an inflation? 01:56 < dr-orlovsky> *possibly 02:03 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:08 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:09 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:14 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:19 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:23 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:30 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:32 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:37 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:42 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:47 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:50 -!- murray_ is now known as murrayn 02:50 -!- murrayn [~murray@static.56.37.130.94.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Changing host] 02:50 -!- murrayn [~murray@unaffiliated/murrayn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:00 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:08 < fluffypony> dr-orlovsky: how would you do commitments without range proofs and still prevent inflation? 03:11 < dr-orlovsky> Range proofs are required to demonstrate that the given value does not "overflow", i.e. it is not greater that the maximum allowed total supply, which, in case of bitcoin, is 64-bit. So range proofs used to verify that the amount behind the commitment is less than 64-bit value. If our amount are 256 bits, one can not construct a Pedersen commitment that will "overflow", so I assume range proofs are not needed in this case 03:12 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:15 < dr-orlovsky> I.e. if I'd like to show that a+b (inputs) - (x+y) (outputs) = 0, and a, b, x, y are 64-bit values, and use Pedersen commitments (which result in 256 bit values), I will convert a,b,x,y each into 256-bit integer (before constructing a commitment) and attach a range proofs that each of them is not greater than 2^64. If the original a,b,x,y are 256-bit integer, no reason to prove that they are <2^256 03:16 -!- marcoagner [~user@2001:8a0:6a44:d000:fdf8:4cc:db47:dd0a] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:37 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:40 -!- Kiminuo [~mix@141.98.103.244] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:45 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:00 -!- unfo- [~unfo-@195.206.169.238] has quit [] 04:03 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-p8vu8h.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:04 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:11 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:13 -!- slivera [slivera@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/slivera] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:13 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:15 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:17 -!- MTecknology1 [~MTecknolo@84.39.117.57] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:17 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:21 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:22 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:23 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:28 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:29 -!- Krellan__ [~Krellan@2601:640:4100:e:7ca2:9e:6542:eb01] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:29 -!- Krellan_ [~Krellan@c-24-130-205-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31 -!- Krellan_ [~Krellan@2601:640:4100:e:64e6:7bec:b329:f452] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:33 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:34 -!- AbramAdelmo [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34 -!- AbramAdelmo [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:35 -!- Krellan__ [~Krellan@2601:640:4100:e:7ca2:9e:6542:eb01] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:39 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:40 -!- AbramAdelmo [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51 -!- joncoe [seru@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/joncoe] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:51 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:53 -!- AbramAdelmo [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:54 -!- AbramAdelmo_ [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:56 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:56 -!- imawhale [~Thunderbi@softbank126209207232.bbtec.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:58 -!- AbramAdelmo [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:02 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:06 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:09 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:17 -!- amptwo [~Guest@subs05-223-255-224-119.three.co.id] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:19 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:27 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-p8vu8h.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:35 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:35 -!- Kiminuo [~mix@141.98.103.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:38 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:38 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 05:42 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:43 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:48 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:56 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03 -!- shush [~pawn@cpe-76-176-12-33.san.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:09 -!- shush [~pawn@cpe-76-176-12-33.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:20 -!- amptwo [~Guest@subs05-223-255-224-119.three.co.id] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:21 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:31 -!- AbramAdelmo_ [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47 -!- amptwo [~Guest@subs05-223-255-224-124.three.co.id] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:48 -!- imawhale [~Thunderbi@softbank126209207232.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:51 -!- davispuh [~quassel@95.68.80.195] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:00 -!- MTecknology1 [~MTecknolo@84.39.117.57] has quit [] 07:06 -!- davispuh [~quassel@95.68.80.195] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 07:06 -!- AbramAdelmo [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:08 -!- davispuh [~quassel@95.68.80.195] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:17 -!- sirkitree [~sirkitree@185.204.1.185] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:32 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@cust-222-214-109-94.dyn.as47377.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:47 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-papxljjpsdazhudg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:55 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@cust-222-214-109-94.dyn.as47377.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:19 -!- amptwo [~Guest@subs05-223-255-224-124.three.co.id] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:26 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:27 < tromp_> then you can trivially transfer a 1 sat input into two outputs of 2 sat and r-1 sats, where r is secp256k1 order, and spend forever from latter output 08:28 < tromp_> ignoring overflow doesn't mean you eliminated it 08:29 < tromp_> 256 bit amounts simply make it impossible to detect overflow with rangeproofs 08:29 -!- brianhoffman_ [~brianhoff@pool-96-240-138-69.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:30 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:31 -!- brianhoffman [~brianhoff@pool-96-240-138-69.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:31 -!- brianhoffman_ is now known as brianhoffman 08:49 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:50 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-188-160.nc.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:50 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-188-160.nc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:50 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:52 -!- morcos [~morcos@gateway/tor-sasl/morcos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52 -!- morcos [~morcos@gateway/tor-sasl/morcos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:53 -!- AbramAdelmo [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:53 -!- AbramAdelmo [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:01 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.83.89.180] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:09 < waxwing> who invented modular arithmetic anyway? that was a mistake. 09:14 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e35:8ab1:dea0:19d1:cd74:8087:4b62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:15 -!- joncoe [seru@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/joncoe] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:15 -!- markus-k [~markus@server01.comtime-it.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:15 -!- markus-k [~markus@server01.comtime-it.eu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:29 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:33 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:36 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.83.89.180] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 09:38 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e35:8ab1:dea0:19d1:cd74:8087:4b62] has quit [] 09:49 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:51 -!- Kiminuo [~mix@141.98.103.244] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:00 -!- sirkitree [~sirkitree@185.204.1.185] has quit [] 10:01 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:05 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:10 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:9473:5fd2:3f61:5108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17 -!- Laat [~Laat@77.243.177.38] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:17 -!- ryan-c` [ryan-c@znc.rya.nc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:18 -!- ryan-c [ryan-c@znc.rya.nc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18 -!- ryan-c` is now known as ryan-c 10:23 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.83.89.180] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:33 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has quit [Quit: o/] 10:35 -!- tynes_ [~tynes@30.50.237.35.bc.googleusercontent.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:36 -!- tynes [~tynes@30.50.237.35.bc.googleusercontent.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:40 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@c-67-180-60-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:47 -!- victorSN [~victorSN@unaffiliated/victorsn] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:48 -!- victorSN [~victorSN@unaffiliated/victorsn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:49 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:53 -!- victorSN6 [~victorSN@unaffiliated/victorsn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:54 -!- sipa [~pw@gateway/tor-sasl/sipa1024] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:57 -!- victorSN [~victorSN@unaffiliated/victorsn] has quit [Client Quit] 10:57 -!- victorSN6 is now known as victorSN 11:00 -!- dr-orlovsky [~dr-orlovs@194.230.155.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:01 < bsm1175321> gmaxwell, andytoshi: FWIW, the last time I worked with Shamir shares, I did also build a consensus system. Each device (share) had to be online, able to verify commitments to shares, change share epochs (redistribution), etc. 11:01 -!- sipa [~pw@gateway/tor-sasl/sipa1024] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:01 < bsm1175321> Obviously, each share being online and adding a consensus system is a pretty serious design consideration. 11:02 -!- dr-orlovsky [~dr-orlovs@194.230.155.171] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:02 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:02 < bsm1175321> But, if shareholders are capable of verifying each other, it solves a lot of problems...but it does imply a consensus system. 11:05 < bsm1175321>