--- Log opened Mon Jan 13 00:00:05 2020 00:07 -!- ryan-c [ryan-c@znc.rya.nc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07 -!- Guest40148 [~kayront@zbase.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in] 00:10 -!- kayront [~kayront@zbase.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:11 -!- kayront is now known as Guest29677 00:12 -!- ryan-c [ryan-c@znc.rya.nc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:31 -!- Logicwax [~Logicwax@c-76-126-174-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:35 -!- Logicwax [~Logicwax@c-76-126-174-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:45 -!- spinza [~spin@102.132.245.16] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 01:00 -!- shazow [~shazow@185.169.255.76] has quit [] 01:06 -!- spinza [~spin@102.132.245.16] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:17 -!- marcoagner [~user@2001:8a0:6a44:d000:fdf8:4cc:db47:dd0a] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:32 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:38 -!- vcorem [~vcorem@bzq-3-168-31-2.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:42 -!- EmmyNoether [~EmmyNoeth@oasys.ch0wn.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:46 -!- andyvk5 [~andyvk5@141.98.101.133] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:50 -!- EmmyNoether [~EmmyNoeth@oasys.ch0wn.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:52 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:56 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:10 < elichai2> Does anyone knows of any writeup of the change in security model by committing to a utxo commitment in the blocks and not verifying older blocks? is it any different than SPV model? 02:11 < elichai2> is there any known way to use utxo commitments in a better security model than SPV? 02:18 -!- AbramAdelmo_ [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:21 -!- AbramAdelmo [AbramAdelm@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/abramadelmo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:32 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43 -!- vcorem [~vcorem@bzq-3-168-31-2.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49 -!- jonatack [~jon@54.76.13.109.rev.sfr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:54 -!- joncoe [seru@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/joncoe] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:54 -!- jonatack [~jon@54.76.13.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:55 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.138] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:58 -!- EmmyNoether [~EmmyNoeth@oasys.ch0wn.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:01 -!- EmmyNoether [~EmmyNoeth@oasys.ch0wn.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:01 -!- paultroon [~paultroon@h-5-150-248-150.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06 -!- EmmyNoether [~EmmyNoeth@oasys.ch0wn.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:06 -!- Jaamg [jaamg@kapsi.fi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:20 -!- EmmyNoether [~EmmyNoeth@oasys.ch0wn.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:22 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-p8vu8h.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:30 -!- slivera [slivera@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/slivera] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:38 -!- joncoe [seru@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/joncoe] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:38 -!- jcoe [seru@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/joncoe] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:47 -!- slivera [slivera@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/slivera] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:53 -!- ddustin_ [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:57 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:00 -!- andyvk5 [~andyvk5@141.98.101.133] has quit [] 04:17 -!- reeiiko [~reeiiko@185.169.255.76] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:18 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.102.221.214] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:18 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.102.221.214] has quit [Changing host] 04:18 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:22 -!- cdecker [~cdecker@mail.snyke.net] has quit [Quit: Bye bye] 04:22 -!- EmmyNoether [~EmmyNoeth@oasys.ch0wn.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23 -!- cdecker [~cdecker@mail.snyke.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:25 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:26 -!- nirved [~nirved@2a02:8071:b58a:3c00:101a:1e6:1c2a:1acb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:27 -!- nirved [~nirved@2a02:8071:b58a:3c00:3ca6:9fb9:2e23:4e12] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:31 -!- EmmyNoether [~EmmyNoeth@oasys.ch0wn.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:35 -!- bildramer1 is now known as bildramer 04:42 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-235.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:44 -!- jcoe1 [~seru@217.138.196.19] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:44 -!- jcoe [seru@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/joncoe] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:54 < gleb> I remember sipa's and achow's old responses on stackoverflow, but it's not really that deep. I think writing up something like this would be useful. 04:58 < gleb> Well, technically, since there are currently very few nodes serving BIP158, I would argue that this SPV security is lower than if something is committed to the block, from the network layer prospective. But that's not the security you're asking about :) 05:10 -!- jungly [~quassel@79.8.200.97] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:14 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:33 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:45 -!- kinlo [~peter@unaffiliated/kinlo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:48 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50 -!- kinlo [~peter@unaffiliated/kinlo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:52 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:00 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@wpsoftware.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:00 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:00 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:12 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:16 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:25 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.102.221.214] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:25 -!- shesek [~shesek@5.102.221.214] has quit [Changing host] 06:25 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:26 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:46 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:46 < instagibbs> elichai2, whatever it is, it's the basic ethereum security model. Most nodes ignore "history" and validate at tip 06:47 < elichai2> instagibbs: right. and a lot of other new currencies. I'm curious if there's any writeup on what is/isn't possible and what exactly are the models here 06:48 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:58 < instagibbs> gut feels is that it's on the "weak subjectivity" spectrum where you're forced to stay pretty current, or phone a friend to get on the proper tip 06:59 < instagibbs> the friend in this case being a miner... 07:00 -!- reeiiko [~reeiiko@185.169.255.76] has quit [] 07:05 -!- jcoe1 [~seru@217.138.196.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06 -!- jcoe1 [~seru@217.138.196.19] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:07 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:07 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:10 -!- jcoe [seru@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/joncoe] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:11 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11 -!- jcoe1 [~seru@217.138.196.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:11 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:27 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:27 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27 -!- jungly [~quassel@79.8.200.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:30 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:34 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:37 -!- ddustin_ [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47 -!- Morgon1 [~Morgon@195.206.183.79] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:48 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:49 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@38.126.31.226] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:50 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:57 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:01 -!- bitcoin-wizards3 [d4533351@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.212.83.51.81] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:09 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:13 < kanzure> "Reducing the bandwidth of block propagation in bitcoin network with erasure coding" https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8922597 08:14 -!- bitcoin-wizards3 [d4533351@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.212.83.51.81] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 08:18 -!- bitcoin-wizards3 [d4533351@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.212.83.51.81] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:23 < bsm1175321> kanzure: need comparison to Erlay, Falcon, FIBRE... but interesting. 08:24 * bsm1175321 puts on referee hat 08:29 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:31 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31 < bitcoin-wizards3> What is the theoretical propagation minimum with globally decentralised nodes? 120ms? 08:32 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:32 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@gateway/tor-sasl/mryandao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:32 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:32 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@gateway/tor-sasl/mryandao] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:32 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:33 -!- jcv [~jcv@zebes.netpurgatory.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:33 -!- jcv [~jcv@zebes.netpurgatory.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:47 < bsm1175321> bitcoin-wizards3: 2*pi*r_e/c = 133ms (speed of light -- multiply by a factor up to 3 for copper) 08:48 < bsm1175321> But your question is ill specified...are you asking how much time for a packet to reach all nodes? If the packet is transmitted in all directions simultanously the answer is half that, 67ms. 08:49 < bsm1175321> Again, speed of light -- you'd need e.g. StarLink to get close to it. In practice, more like 200-250ms. 08:50 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50 < bitcoin-wizards3> Agree with your calculation but isnt glass fiber only 30% slower than air? 08:51 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:53 < bitcoin-wizards3> wintelguy com/wanlat.html 09:05 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:06 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:08 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:14 -!- Honethe_ [~Honthe@s91904424.blix.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:14 -!- Honthe [~Honthe@s91904424.blix.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:14 -!- Emcy_ [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:14 -!- Honethe_ [~Honthe@s91904424.blix.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15 -!- Honthe [~Honthe@s91904424.blix.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:24 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:29 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:31 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:35 -!- bitcoin-wizards3 [d4533351@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.212.83.51.81] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 09:39 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-p8vu8h.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:52 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-149.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:56 < bsm1175321> yes 09:56 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:57 < bsm1175321> 200-250ms is my personal experience with ping times. 09:58 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:00 -!- Morgon1 [~Morgon@195.206.183.79] has quit [] 10:08 -!- bitcoin-wizards3 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seconds] 12:12 -!- ryan_singer [~ryan@2607:f598:b0b2:d200:f4fb:2c79:9d7b:c51d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:20 < gleb> "In particular, Bitcoin [1] and Ethereum [2] demonstrate thatthe transaction speed is not sufficient to handle large-scaletransactions." 12:20 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:20 < gleb> Wtf i just read. 12:22 < sipa> ha 12:22 < gleb> tl;dr: "this paper does not analysis the security of the proposed method," 12:29 -!- ryan_singer [~ryan@2607:f598:b0b2:d200:f4fb:2c79:9d7b:c51d] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:47 -!- ryan_singer [~ryan@2607:f598:b0b2:d200:3967:3021:4c8:e898] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:51 -!- ryan_singer [~ryan@2607:f598:b0b2:d200:3967:3021:4c8:e898] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:00 -!- seawalk [~seawalk@139.28.218.198] has quit [] 13:04 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@4.53.92.114] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:12 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:16 -!- 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