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[~pawn@wsip-184-176-42-2.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:17 -!- captjakk [~captjakk@75-166-188-3.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22 -!- nick_freeman [~nick_free@2001:16b8:301f:1000:cc93:82a5:a67f:794d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32 -!- guest534543 [~mix@141.98.103.206] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:34 -!- Kiminuo [~mix@141.98.103.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:48 -!- guest534543 [~mix@141.98.103.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:49 -!- Kiminuo [~mix@141.98.103.206] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:00 -!- hollisb [~hollisb@176.113.74.179] has quit [] 22:02 -!- harrigan_ [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-235.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:03 -!- aupiff [~aupiff@IGLD-80-230-170-81.inter.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:04 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-235.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:13 -!- aupiff [~aupiff@IGLD-80-230-170-81.inter.net.il] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:15 -!- Fiver [~Fiver@139.28.218.198] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:22 -!- aupiff [~aupiff@IGLD-80-230-170-81.inter.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:34 < ariard> waxwing: re: timelocking you don't need only to timelock but also inter-timelocks deltas to be ones observable with the set of txn you want to be undistinguishable? 22:34 < ariard> doable but care of not introducing a bias 22:34 < zmnscpxj> context? 22:34 -!- Kiminuo [~mix@141.98.103.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:34 < ariard> on the multi-tx construction protocol, you may reuse the tx interactive tx pprotocol 22:34 < ariard> when matures 22:35 < zmnscpxj> Is this for CoinJoinXT? 22:35 < ariard> yes 22:35 < ariard> because if you commit timelocks with N+42,N+84,... 22:35 < zmnscpxj> ah 22:35 < ariard> that's an obvious flag 22:36 < zmnscpxj> for CoinJoinXT we need to emulate "normal" behavior for a wallet 22:36 < zmnscpxj> and most wallets are controlled by humans 22:36 < zmnscpxj> which are difficult to model 22:36 < ariard> yeah that's my point 22:37 < zmnscpxj> we could try to emulate this by observing the typical coin-depth of transactions 22:37 < zmnscpxj> I mean.... the confirmation depth of inputs 22:37 < zmnscpxj> figure out its distribution 22:37 < zmnscpxj> then sample from a distribution from the same model 22:37 < zmnscpxj> which leads me to think that it is likely that most transactions will have a long confirmation depth for inputs 22:37 < ariard> and hardcode in timelock PTG algo + a bit of randomness 22:38 < zmnscpxj> which is mildly undesirable since it would make CoinJoinXT very long 22:39 < ariard> fast, confidential, liquidity, pick two 22:40 < zmnscpxj> since CoinJoinXT is (we hope) multi-participant, how does the PTG algo get done? 22:40 < ariard> also can you combine coinjoinXT and coinshuffle and still keep outputs unlinkability? because if I announce my exit points on different stages of the PTG.. 22:40 < zmnscpxj> Ideally the PTG algo would be deterministic: the participants contribute to some random seed, there is an algorithm which samples from a PRNG, and deterministically generates the PTG. 22:41 < zmnscpxj> If only one participant does the PTG, how do the others know the PTG was done correctly without biases? 22:41 < ariard> ah I see, users don't decide the tree, just inputs they want to mix 22:42 < ariard> you valid the announced PTG against your set of desirable tree templates but mehhh... 22:43 -!- Kiminuo [~mix@141.98.103.148] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:43 < zmnscpxj> with my proposal in https://zmnscpxj.github.io/bitcoin/coinjoinxt.html a server generates the PTG, but that allows the server much leeway to generate PTGs however 22:43 < zmnscpxj> including in ways that are biased and possibly easily leaked 22:45 < ariard> what do we aim for? if at least two honest users are part of the protocol, you get a bit of privacy? 22:45 < zmnscpxj> seems a reasonable goal? 22:48 < ariard> yes, even in case of malicious PTG server 22:48 < ariard> -> sleep 22:48 < ariard> (but will brood on it) 22:49 -!- aupiff [~aupiff@IGLD-80-230-170-81.inter.net.il] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:02 < zmnscpxj> another thought: if you have some transaction that you sign *now*, but which is timelocked in the future, you lock in a particular feerate *now* which might be outside a "reasonable" fee range in the future 23:04 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:f4bb:ce41:bec9:88e2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:08 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:11 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:f4bb:ce41:bec9:88e2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:42 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:45 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Quit: bye] --- Log closed Thu Feb 27 00:00:06 2020