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-!- son0p_ [~son0p@186.87.8.54] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:48 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53 -!- rockhouse [~rockhouse@unaffiliated/rockhouse] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53 -!- victorSN [~victorSN@unaffiliated/victorsn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59 -!- rockhouse [~rockhouse@unaffiliated/rockhouse] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:59 -!- victorSN [~victorSN@unaffiliated/victorsn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:02 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-p8vu8h.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-p8vu8h.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:33 -!- surja795 [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:38 -!- surja795 [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:45 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:00 -!- Shabbypenguin [~Shabbypen@185.204.1.185] has quit [] 11:08 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:2882:b91c:2d39:f995] has quit [] 11:20 < jeremyrubin> is the BIP-32 weakness (ext parent key + non hardened child --> ext paretn privkey) inherent or just a choice for the scheme? 11:21 -!- torax [~torax@139.28.218.198] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:22 < sipa> it is my belief that it is inevitable as long as just DL-based cryptography is used 11:22 < zmnscpxj__> I believe so as well 11:22 < sipa> by making xpubs linearly larger, they can support O(n) revelation of child private keys 11:22 < sipa> but you can't do better 11:23 < jeremyrubin> sipa: that version is also trivially true under concatenation, but there's probably a more efficient O(n) scheme 11:24 < sipa> what do you mean by concatenation? 11:24 < sipa> it's not that trivial, iirc 11:24 < jeremyrubin> e.g. P1P2P3P4 and require all 4 to sign. You can reveal a child for 3 of P1, P2, P3, P4 11:25 < sipa> no no 11:25 < sipa> there is a scheme that lets you generate 1 public key from 1 xpub, in such a way that revealing 3 child private keys is fine 11:25 < sipa> let me try to find the paper 11:26 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 11:26 < jeremyrubin> Huh 11:26 < jeremyrubin> And it recurses? 11:26 < jeremyrubin> Because if you do n = 2 or 3, then you can just do key-trees 11:26 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:26 < sipa> no 11:26 < sipa> any k but not more 11:26 < jeremyrubin> Ah 11:27 < sipa> same as BIP32, except BIP32 has n=1 11:27 < jeremyrubin> So if I knew some distant cousins they would still 'count' 11:27 < sipa> https://fc15.ifca.ai/preproceedings/paper_15.pdf 11:28 < jeremyrubin> Paper is still of interest since for the use case I have in mind being able to publicly derive a known N would be interesting. Out of curiosity on the larger pubkeys, that implies not bitcoin compatible correct? Or is it pubkey that is just a larger generator? 11:29 < sipa> it's bitcoin compatible 11:29 < sipa> the xpub just contains more than 1 point 11:29 < jeremyrubin> gotcha. 11:39 < jeremyrubin> This is helpful, but I'm trying to understand the benefit. So I publish a public key of length N+1, then a public individual can compute M > N sub-keys, but I can only reveal the private keys to L <= N of them? So the benefit is that I'm not precommiting to which keys I've released? Versus a simpler "Here are N keys" model. 11:40 < jeremyrubin> This does seem overall a good match for my use case, where the user will derive M > N sub-keys but only receive N of them 11:45 < jeremyrubin> I think I can even set something up within this scheme which is hierarchical-like 11:48 -!- surja795 [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:52 < jeremyrubin> E.g., suppose you use the first N+1 group to generate and reveal 2N pubkeys and then reveal N privkeys. The other N privkeys are still secure. So then the group of N revealed privkeys can be used to create a generator for N-1 privkeys/pubkeys etc. 11:53 -!- surja795 [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:53 < sipa> you're using the term group and generator, but i think you mean something else than the group theory meaning of those words? 11:53 < jeremyrubin> Yeah 11:54 < jeremyrubin> Group --> Sequence 11:54 < jeremyrubin> generator --> constructor? 11:54 < jeremyrubin> The base case I have is essentially revealing a single integer which corresponds to a key which corresponds to binary conditions in the sequence above. 11:55 < jeremyrubin> So you would reveal that key and all it's parents 11:55 < jeremyrubin> and the child gives you no additional information on the cousins (because it's only from info known at the parent level) 11:56 < jeremyrubin> Hmm I guess not all it's parents 11:57 < jeremyrubin> Will need to write it out to confirm it does what I think 12:03 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:04 -!- proofofk_ [~proofofke@174-29-9-247.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:07 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:08 -!- proofofkeags [~proofofke@174-29-9-247.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:14 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:29 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:8120:7e98:33bf:2273] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c02:c564:8120:7e98:33bf:2273] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:46 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:53 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-p8vu8h.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:53 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-p8vu8h.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:57 -!- go11111111111 [~go1111111@104.156.98.86] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:00 -!- go121212 [go1111111@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/go1111111] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:07 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:09 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.149] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:11 -!- son0p_ [~son0p@186.87.8.54] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:20 -!- surja795 [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:24 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1] 13:29 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:29 -!- IPGlider [~IPGlider@45.76.34.219] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:36 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:36 -!- dr-orlovsky [~dr-orlovs@xdsl-188-155-161-135.adslplus.ch] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:38 -!- dr-orlovsky [~dr-orlovs@xdsl-188-155-161-135.adslplus.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 13:43 -!- son0p_ [~son0p@181.136.122.143] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:48 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55 -!- proofofk_ [~proofofke@174-29-9-247.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:55 -!- proofofkeags [~proofofke@174-29-9-247.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:57 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5947:6874:cf31:c541] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:00 -!- torax [~torax@139.28.218.198] has quit [] 14:02 -!- surja795_ [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:03 -!- surja795_ [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04 -!- surja795_ [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:06 -!- surja795 [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:07 -!- surja795 [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:08 -!- surja795_ [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12 -!- surja795 [~surja795@c-24-61-194-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:22 -!- fredy1 [~fredy@84.39.116.180] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:37 -!- son0p_ [~son0p@181.136.122.143] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:08 -!- Guyver2 [Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! 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