--- Log opened Thu Oct 15 00:00:47 2020
00:15 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
00:46 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:47 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:59 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@91.178.27.89] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:00 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@91.178.27.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:13 -!- Guyver2 [Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:19 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
01:29 -!- uiuc-slack [~uiuc-slac@li175-104.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:29 -!- uiuc-slack [~uiuc-slac@li175-104.members.linode.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:31 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:32 -!- wk057 [~wk@unaffiliated/wizkid057] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:35 -!- wk057 [~wk@unaffiliated/wizkid057] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:42 -!- jonatack [~jon@109.202.107.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
01:47 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@c-73-15-215-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
02:00 -!- larsivi [~larsivi@s91904426.blix.com] has quit []
02:07 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
02:12 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
02:21 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:22 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.211] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:33 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
02:38 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
02:40 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.172.104.51] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:45 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
02:47 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.172.104.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
02:49 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:56 -!- BjarniRunar1 [~BjarniRun@185.163.110.116] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:14 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:23 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
03:25 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.172.104.51] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:27 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:32 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Client Quit]
03:38 -!- aj [aj@cerulean.erisian.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:39 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.172.104.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:40 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.172.104.51] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:41 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.172.104.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:41 -!- jonatack__ [~jon@37.172.104.51] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:46 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@91.178.27.89] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:53 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.164.124.179] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:55 -!- jonatack__ [~jon@37.172.104.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
04:04 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:09 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
04:17 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.164.124.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
04:25 -!- aj [aj@cerulean.erisian.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:30 -!- uiuc-slack [~uiuc-slac@li175-104.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:30 -!- uiuc-slack [~uiuc-slac@li175-104.members.linode.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:32 -!- tralfaz [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:32 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:32 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:32 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:59 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xiqfegqbyrrkfstn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:00 -!- BjarniRunar1 [~BjarniRun@185.163.110.116] has quit []
05:22 -!- kerbyu [~kerbyu@217.146.82.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:32 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@91.178.27.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:46 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:52 -!- willcl_ark is now known as [github-bot]
05:57 -!- [github-bot] is now known as wilcl_ark
06:03 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:05 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:07 -!- Exho [~Echoplex@139.180.171.37] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:10 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
06:20 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net]
06:21 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:26 -!- tralfaz is now known as davterra
06:29 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-235.ip.airwire.ie] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in]
06:30 -!- kerbyu [~kerbyu@217.146.82.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:31 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has quit [Quit: jonatack]
06:31 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@ptr-93-89-242-235.ip.airwire.ie] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:31 -!- doomas [~doomas@94.229.74.91] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:33 -!- shesek [~shesek@164.90.217.137] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:33 -!- shesek [~shesek@164.90.217.137] has quit [Changing host]
06:33 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:38 -!- jonatack [~jon@109.232.227.138] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:45 -!- glozow [uid453516@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxlwpojdyoxusxnv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:11 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:12 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:16 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:16 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:00 -!- doomas [~doomas@94.229.74.91] has quit []
08:06 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:07 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:6c85:e0d0:ef62:d43a] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:12 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
08:12 -!- davispuh [~quassel@46.109.167.162] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:14 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:15 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:15 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:6c85:e0d0:ef62:d43a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:22 -!- gonemad3 [~gonemad3@89.47.234.28] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:29 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@h-13-35.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:34 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:6c85:e0d0:ef62:d43a] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:46 < yanmaani> what prevents someone from building a PoS network on top of bitcoin?
08:46 < yanmaani> as in a sidechain?
08:46 < yanmaani> Bitcoin works by taking electricity (scarce) and using it to create scarce bitcoins
08:47 < yanmaani> PoS doesn't work because it tries to create scarce coins out of nowhere
08:47 < yanmaani> but if you'd take PoS that uses scarce bitcoins for staking, wouldn't that work?
08:47 < yanmaani> So the nothing at stake problem is solved by using the bitcoin network's block hashes as a RNG instead of the PoS network's, for instance
08:51 -!- proofofkeags [~proofofke@c-73-34-43-4.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:55 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:13 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@c-73-15-215-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:15 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
09:19 < queip> yanmaani: I guess no one prevents, but even such type of PoS is probably far less secure then PoW. And either way doesn't change the fact we need PoW in BTC.
09:39 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xiqfegqbyrrkfstn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:40 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vrzjodwngfcxsykt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:50 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:08 < yanmaani> queip: The PoS can have security equivalent to bitcoin. Although the block reward would be 0.
10:10 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:6c85:e0d0:ef62:d43a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:14 -!- stoner19 [~stoner19@unaffiliated/stoner19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:14 -!- stoner19 [~stoner19@2a02:c207:2022:1374::1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:15 -!- stoner19 is now known as Guest65430
10:18 -!- shush_ [~pawn@cpe-76-176-137-0.san.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:19 < queip> yanmaani: I think it can not
10:20 < queip> does it have same anti-censorship mechanism?
10:20 < queip> in BTC in worst case you can became a miner, or "bribe" one
10:21 < yanmaani> in this, anyone can place a performance bond
10:21 < yanmaani> as long as there's no 51% attack it's fine
10:21 < yanmaani> bitcoin doesn't handle 51% attacks either
10:21 < queip> in any PoS, when 51% or 90% of them decides to never let in certain transaction, they will not lose money (only besides your txfee) for not doing so, right?  while in PoW they also would be losing some block rewards?
10:22 -!- Guest65430 [~stoner19@2a02:c207:2022:1374::1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:22 -!- stoner19 [~stoner19@2a02:c207:2022:1374::1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:22 -!- stoner19 is now known as Guest15409
10:23 < yanmaani> no, in PoW they could just mine empty blocks
10:23 < yanmaani> same situation
10:24 < queip> yanmaani: it if one of 49% mines it, they need to reorg him?
10:24 < yanmaani> That's no extra work for them.
10:25 < yanmaani> If they lose, they lose, that's bad. But in PoS, you can theoretically do things like "if you get reorged badly, your entire deposit burns"
10:25 < yanmaani> so the equivalent of "do a 51% attack and your asic farm burns down"
10:25 < yanmaani> In PoW, if you're 51%, then you can just ignore the 49%. There's no extra work to reorg them.
10:26 -!- Guest15409 is now known as stoner19
10:26 -!- stoner19 [~stoner19@2a02:c207:2022:1374::1] has quit [Changing host]
10:26 -!- stoner19 [~stoner19@unaffiliated/stoner19] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:38 -!- davec [~davec@072-183-054-196.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
10:42 -!- davec [~davec@072-183-054-196.res.spectrum.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:57 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
10:59 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit []
11:00 -!- gonemad3 [~gonemad3@89.47.234.28] has quit []
11:02 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer]
11:06 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:08 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:21 -!- Lthere [~Lthere@185.204.1.185] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:23 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vrzjodwngfcxsykt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
11:27 -!- shush_ [~pawn@cpe-76-176-137-0.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:33 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:42 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:e153:d07d:4dd7:1e7d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:09 -!- vtnerd [~vtnerd@50-81-138-206.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
12:11 -!- vtnerd [~vtnerd@50-81-138-206.client.mchsi.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:18 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:19 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:31 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
12:39 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:56 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2a84:12c:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
13:06 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:17 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@91.178.27.89] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:22 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:36 < remaeus> PoS only secure up to 1/3rd Byzantine actors, PoW is 51%
13:45 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:00 -!- Lthere [~Lthere@185.204.1.185] has quit []
14:00 -!- wilcl_ark is now known as willcl_ark
14:12 -!- Guyver2 [Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
14:20 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2a84:12c:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:22 -!- shush_ [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:e153:d07d:4dd7:1e7d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:23 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:e153:d07d:4dd7:1e7d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:29 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
14:38 -!- Exho [~Echoplex@139.180.171.37] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
14:55 -!- schwuk [~schwuk@178.162.209.171] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:06 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@91.178.27.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:39 -!- Livestradamus [~quassel@unaffiliated/livestradamus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:39 -!- IPGlider [~IPGlider@45.76.34.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:40 -!- Livestradamus [~quassel@unaffiliated/livestradamus] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:41 -!- IPGlider [~IPGlider@45.76.34.219] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:00 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit []
16:18 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:27 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
16:29 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-llnkyslbjkxpfwvq] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:40 -!- fjahr_ is now known as fjahr
16:46 -!- proofofkeags [~proofofke@c-73-34-43-4.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
17:00 -!- schwuk [~schwuk@178.162.209.171] has quit []
17:00 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:05 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:08 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
17:11 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:15 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-139-5.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
17:22 -!- I440r [~I440r@195.206.169.184] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:24 -!- proofofkeags [~proofofke@174-29-30-112.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:34 -!- shush_ [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:e153:d07d:4dd7:1e7d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:03 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:30 -!- glozow [uid453516@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxlwpojdyoxusxnv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
18:53 -!- smak [46200034@unaffiliated/smk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:28 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:37 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:e153:d07d:4dd7:1e7d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:42 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:44 -!- Belkaar_ [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-70-208.nc.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:44 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
19:53 -!- davispuh [~quassel@46.109.167.162] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
20:00 -!- I440r [~I440r@195.206.169.184] has quit []
20:07 -!- smak [46200034@unaffiliated/smk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:32 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20:35 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:36 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-llnkyslbjkxpfwvq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20:37 -!- proofofkeags [~proofofke@174-29-30-112.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:57 -!- Ahmuck1 [~Ahmuck@195.206.169.184] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:25 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
21:30 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:31 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:46 -!- proofofkeags [~proofofke@174-29-30-112.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:52 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:35 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
22:38 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:50 -!- proofofkeags [~proofofke@174-29-30-112.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
23:00 -!- Ahmuck1 [~Ahmuck@195.206.169.184] has quit []
23:22 -!- Wayno [~Wayno@185.163.110.116] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:27 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:e153:d07d:4dd7:1e7d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:28 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:e153:d07d:4dd7:1e7d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:32 -!- shush [~pawn@2605:e000:1c03:824a:e153:d07d:4dd7:1e7d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:45 -!- jesseposner [~jesse@98.37.146.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
23:52 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
--- Log closed Fri Oct 16 00:00:48 2020