--- Log opened Mon Nov 15 00:00:33 2021
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05:25 < roconnor> If I increase the number of characters for the ID from 3 to 4, then we get 45 data characters total for 128-bit entropy, plus a 3 character HRP yields 48 characters.
05:26 < roconnor> the size of a standard 12 4-letter word backup storage system.
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06:29 < pin> halden calculex
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07:46 < andytoshi> roconnor: i think we want an even number of data characters, because the worksheet works in twos
07:46 < andytoshi> although i guess we could just fill in a Q in the unused slot
07:46 < andytoshi> (or can we? actually i think not, we'd need to do some ugly shifting of boxes0
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08:20 < roconnor> That was my (selfish) thinking.  But when we chop of the head of the ladder, then we can support either an odd or even (12-or-13) starting set of characters.
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09:02 < _aj_> andytoshi: hardcode however many missing bits you need as a version identifier?
09:08 < andytoshi> i don't understand
09:10 < _aj_> andytoshi: "i think we want an even number of data characters" maybe i misunderstood
09:11 < _aj_> i was probably confused thinking about the 1024-word encoding, nm
09:14 < andytoshi> ah, no, what i was saying is dumber than that ... russell has a worksheet where you iteratively compute a checksum two characters at a time
09:14 < andytoshi> for no fundamental reason other than that it takes a bit less work
09:51 < roconnor> honestly the worksheet is even slightly nicer with a 13 character start.
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10:05 < andytoshi> nice
10:05 < andytoshi> tbh i'm not sure what you have in mind by compacting the first few lines. looking forward to seeing it
10:48 < michaelfolkson> Sorry to interrupt conversation but someone is asking for your slides from TABConf andytoshi. Have you shared them publicly or are you willing to share them?
10:49 < andytoshi> michaelfolkson: sure, one sec, i will
10:50 < andytoshi> michaelfolkson: https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizardry/2021-11-tabconf/
10:51 < michaelfolkson> Great, thanks
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11:19 < roconnor> andytoshi: Here is a very quick and dirty example of compacting the first few lines @ https://raw.githubusercontent.com/roconnor-blockstream/SSS32/compacted/SSS32.ps
11:21 < andytoshi> roconnor: ah! i get it now
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13:57 < andytoshi> looks like slip39 mandates encryption of the master seed
13:57 < andytoshi> so i can't hand-convert my bip39 seed words into a slip39 encoding
13:58 < andytoshi> nor can i interconvert between slip39 and the volvelle code
13:59 < roconnor> not by hand.
14:00 < roconnor> Mabye on a TI-85
14:00 < roconnor> oh man PBKDF2
14:00  * roconnor buys stocks in AAA batteries.
14:00 < sipa> hahaha
14:00 < andytoshi> lol, yeah, and minimum 10000 iters
14:01 < sipa> one would want pre-2009 calculators i guess
14:01 < sipa> oh, ti-85 is from 1992
14:01 < sipa> that works
14:01 < andytoshi> mine will be here friday btw
14:01 < sipa> it has a 6 MHz 8-bit CPU
14:03 < andytoshi> i can jury-rig a plug-in power supply if i actually need long-running computations
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14:25 < andytoshi> sigh, so after round-tripping a bip39 seedphrase into bech32 and back, i found three mistakes which had all happened in the bip39->binary part
14:25 < andytoshi> i think the lesson here is probably to just do the conversions in and out of bip39 on the TI-85
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14:28 < roconnor> strange. That's the easy part.
14:29 < roconnor> Maybe having properly lined paper would help?
14:32 < andytoshi> yeah, my worksheet definitely had too-small squares and my handwriting was really shitty, since this was the first thing i'd done and i hadn't realized yet how ambiguous my handwriting is when i'm writing random data
14:32 < andytoshi> i think, that would help, and then also just having a second person do the inverse conversion _first_, before doing any of the checksum stuff, would've saved me
14:34 < andytoshi> this exercise (convert to bech32, compute the checksum, have my gf verify the checksum then convert back to bip39) had a lot of opportunity for me to add extra checks like that, which wouldn't have even been very hard
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14:35 < andytoshi> i think the correct order of operations should've been: convert to base 32, have my gf convert back, make sure that round trip works
14:35 < andytoshi> *then* checksum the base 32 data
14:35 < andytoshi> *then* have her verify the checksum
14:35 < andytoshi> then do the SSS stuff, again having a second trusted person verify the checksum on every share
14:36 < roconnor> for the derived shared you ought to be able to cross check the checksums yourself.
14:36 < roconnor> *derived shares
14:36 < andytoshi> heh, i was just about to type that
14:36 < andytoshi> i think you're right
14:38 < andytoshi> so i think for my next trick i'll dice-generate two random shares, put the headers etc on them, checksum them with pieter's distance-9 code, and run through the SSS process using the volvelles
14:38 < andytoshi> and see how error-prone that is
14:39 < andytoshi> using the worksheet from my russ32 branch
14:40 < andytoshi> which has large squares that i can print clearly in
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 16 00:00:34 2021