--- Log opened Thu Dec 02 00:00:49 2021
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05:56 < andytoshi>   
05:56 < sipa>  
05:56 < andytoshi> lol, sorry, plugging in a new keyboard
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08:29 < andytoshi> is this bch code generator exhaustive? like, it says there are no dist-9 degree-12 generators with length > 33, is that just the end of the story?
08:30 < sipa> it is intended to be exhaustive
08:30 < sipa> whether it is... you tell me :p
08:30 < andytoshi> :) ok, i've got some reading to do then
08:31 < sipa> i may revert some of its optimizations, as i'm not entirely sure about them
08:31 < sipa> but i don't think it would affect anything you're doing
08:35 < kanzure> "Locally Testable Codes with constant rate, distance, and locality" https://arxiv.org/abs/2111.04808
08:46 < andytoshi> ok, thanks .. so after playing with this generator for a bit i'm pretty pessimistic that we'll find anything meaningfully "more human-computable" than the one that we're currently using
08:46 < andytoshi> though ofc we may be able to find better accidental error correcting properties
08:47 < roconnor> andytoshi: hand made font seems quite doable: https://github.com/roconnor-blockstream/SSS32/blob/handfont/handfont.ps
08:48 < roconnor> the rest of the characters are going to be a little bit harder than the extremely easy ones.
08:57 < sipa> so a strange property i observe is that lots of minimal pooynomials are palindromes
08:57 < sipa> and i can't explain that
08:59 < sipa> oh, i have an explanation
09:00 < sipa> those minimal polynomials happen to be very useful to combine into low-lcm-degree ones
09:00 < sipa> so in general, minimal polynomials aren't palindromes, but the ones that are occur more than proportionally as factors of BCH codes
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09:16 < andytoshi> roconnor: wow! quite a few characters are "extremely easy"
09:16 < andytoshi> i like this a lot
09:17 < andytoshi> sipa: interesting. i geass "happen to be very useful to combine into low-lcm-degree" is maybe some handwavey consequence of the binomial theorem
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12:38 < andytoshi> after continued progress on 4-of-n share generation, i think "compute the top and bottom diagonals first" is definitely the right way to go
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12:38 < andytoshi> this obvs can't catch all possible errors but i think the bech32 alphabet is designed so that it's very likely to catch the sort of errors that people make
12:39 < sipa> andytoshi: oh i have a better explanation why palindromic minimal polynomials are useful
12:39 < sipa> but it's a bit involved
12:39 < sipa> palindromic polynomials have the property that for every root x, they also have root 1/x
12:40 < sipa> palindromic minimal polynomials for alpha^k (which are products of specific powers of alpha^k) are thus equal to the minimal polynomials for alpha^(-k)
12:41 < sipa> and if k is close to 0 (mod length) or to length/2 (mod length), that means that consecutive powers around k exist that include both k and -k
12:41 < sipa> and that obviously helps reduce the lcm
12:47 < andytoshi> ah! nice
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13:21 < roconnor> are you writing bars through your Z's?
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14:14 < andytoshi> roconnor: i am, yes
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14:33 < roconnor> crossed 7?
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14:59 < roconnor> Okay I've completed the bech32 character set.
15:04 < roconnor> maybe I should finish the alphabet.
15:04 < roconnor> meh, no need to bloat the postscript file unless we need it.
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16:29 < andytoshi> yeah and i'll bet B is pretty annoying lol
16:29 < andytoshi> 1 and I and 0 probably aren't too hard
16:30 < andytoshi> nice!!
16:31 < andytoshi> i am working on an introduction, which is currently in markdown https://github.com/apoelstra/SSS32/blob/2021-12--intro/intro.md
16:32 < andytoshi> what's writen now is the "high level introduction", which will be followed by the "detailed introduction" which actually describes what you're supposed to do
16:32 < andytoshi> and then a "tutorial" which goes through share creation and recovery for 2-of-3
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19:48 < roconnor> andytoshi: I might say something like computation on secret data requires trusting the hardware to not keep and leak the secret data, but validating digital electronics is not feasible for consumers.  But it is impossible for paper to "remember" secret data, and, when handled correctly, cannot leak secret data.
19:48 < roconnor> or something along those lines.
19:49 < sipa> roconnor: better wear gloves when doing the computation
19:50 < roconnor> not the worst idea.
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19:54 < _aj_> burn the paper after using it?
19:56 < sipa> then you need a reliable way of recreating it
19:56 < sipa> and printers are likely more evil than the computers they're connected to
19:56 < sipa> perhaps you have a pre-secp256k1 xerox somewhere?
19:59 < _aj_> recreating the computation wheel?
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 03 00:00:50 2021