--- Log opened Fri Dec 10 00:00:56 2021 00:01 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:24 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:38 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:59 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 01:13 -!- solocshaw [~Thunderbi@gateway/vpn/pia/solocshaw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:16 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:00 -!- b10c [uid500648@id-500648.ilkley.irccloud.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:03 -!- MatrixBot1234510 [~matrixbot@51.15.54.153] has quit [Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM] 02:04 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-153.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-89.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:06 -!- MatrixBot1234510 [~matrixbot@51.15.54.153] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:42 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:44 -!- instantp10neer [~instantp1@user/instantp10neer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:48 -!- instantp10neer [~instantp1@user/instantp10neer] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:50 -!- instantp10neer [~instantp1@user/instantp10neer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:03 -!- belcher [~belcher@user/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:16 -!- belcher [~belcher@user/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:23 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@71pc74.sshunet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:50 -!- Common_ [~Common@2600:6c5c:7000:300:88d4:e8a7:3b96:1bbe] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:51 -!- Common_ [~Common@2600:6c5c:7000:300:88d4:e8a7:3b96:1bbe] has quit [Client Quit] 03:53 -!- Common [~Common@user/common] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:11 -!- Common [~Common@096-033-221-075.res.spectrum.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:11 -!- Common [~Common@096-033-221-075.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:11 -!- Common [~Common@user/common] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:53 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Quit: = ""] 04:56 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has left #bitcoin-wizards [Closing Window] 05:42 < andytoshi> wow people on comp.lang.postscript are polite and helpful 05:42 -!- cdecker[m] [~cdeckerma@2001:470:69fc:105::2e8e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:39 -!- jasan [~j@tunnel625336-pt.tunnel.tserv1.bud1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: jasan] 07:43 -!- andrewtoth [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:22 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 08:24 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:30 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:39 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 10:54 < jeremyrubin> andytoshi: they must have some secret agenda 11:06 -!- boON [~boON@user/boon] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:08 -!- boON [~boON@user/boon] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:13 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:26 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:27 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:28 -!- ZeroMaster [~webirc@95-42-105-42.ip.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:44 -!- ZeroMaster [~webirc@95-42-105-42.ip.btc-net.bg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:47 -!- ZeroMaster [~webirc@95-42-105-42.ip.btc-net.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:01 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:20 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:28 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:29 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@user/deanguss] has quit [Quit: buhbye] 12:38 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@nonplayercharacter.me] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:38 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@nonplayercharacter.me] has quit [Changing host] 12:38 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@user/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:47 -!- boON [~boON@user/boon] has quit [Quit: boON] 12:48 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:03 -!- solocshaw [~Thunderbi@gateway/vpn/pia/solocshaw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:14 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:30 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:35 -!- b10c [uid500648@id-500648.ilkley.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:48 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:59 -!- ZeroMaster [~webirc@95-42-105-42.ip.btc-net.bg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:01 -!- RickSanchez [~RickSanch@2607:fb90:26:75e:1dbe:bfbd:3c53:d6d3] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:02 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:12 -!- RickSanchez [~RickSanch@2607:fb90:26:75e:1dbe:bfbd:3c53:d6d3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12 -!- ghost43_ [~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12 -!- ghost43 [~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:12 -!- RickSanchez [~RickSanch@2607:fb90:26:75e:1dbe:bfbd:3c53:d6d3] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:14 -!- RickSanchez [~RickSanch@2607:fb90:26:75e:1dbe:bfbd:3c53:d6d3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14 -!- RickSanchez [~RickSanch@2607:fb90:26:75e:1dbe:bfbd:3c53:d6d3] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:19 -!- RickSanc_ [~RickSanch@2607:fb90:26:75e:ddd7:72a0:aff5:ca3c] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:23 -!- RickSanchez [~RickSanch@2607:fb90:26:75e:1dbe:bfbd:3c53:d6d3] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:40 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:29 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:32 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37 < roconnor> andytoshi: I've pushed a font2 branch as an alternative to the font branch. 15:37 < roconnor> I'm hoping this will work with Preview.app. 15:38 < roconnor> crap I lost my rightarrows again. 15:39 < andytoshi> heh 15:39 < andytoshi> other than the right arrows thing, it looks good to me. i haven't really grokked the code 15:40 < roconnor> and I lost my underlines, which will need a small workaround. 15:40 < andytoshi> i've been spending a bit of time looking at importing fancy truetype fonts .. annoyingly you have to convert them into "type 42" to use them, and the result is like 800k of font data 15:40 < roconnor> that's why it isn't going into the main branch. 15:41 < andytoshi> type 42 is a 2010 thing designed to be better-compatible with truetype than type 1 or 3 15:41 < andytoshi> lol yeah 15:47 < roconnor> I read something about type 1 fonts being phased out next year. 15:47 < roconnor> that was probably apple specific. 15:49 < andytoshi> oh interesting .. good to be aware of 15:52 < sipa> i saw something about the alternative alphabet being hard to search in due to people not knowing its order... have you considered just using the greek alphabet + unicode circled numbers or so? 15:52 < sipa> i guess unicode isn't a thing in postscript, but variants of this are probably possible 15:55 < andytoshi> sipa: we could certainly use circled numbers in lieu of the current non-greek symbols (though i think there are more than 10 of them), but i don't think that would improve things dramatically 15:55 < andytoshi> because the reason for the confusing order is that different wheels need different orderings 15:55 < andytoshi> so we can define the symbols so that one of them will be naturally ordered, but not so all of the mare 15:57 < andytoshi> i guess, the translation volvelle can use an arbitrary ordering ... so it's just the two slide rules that will have incompatible orders 15:59 < sipa> ah i see 16:00 < andytoshi> regarding circled numbers ... i think if we just did the greek letters in order, then made sure the heart/diamond were clustered, the currency symbols were clustered, and the "miscellaneous" symbols were clustered, i think we'd be alright 16:00 -!- instantp10neer [~instantp1@user/instantp10neer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00 -!- instantp10neer [~instantp1@user/instantp10neer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:01 < andytoshi> we need 30 symbols (plus 0 and 1 which i think we're ok using x and aleph), and by my count we are using 16 greek characters right now, which leaves 14 non-greek characters 16:02 < andytoshi> if we did circled numbers i'd like to avoid 0 and 1, so we have only 8 of those 16:25 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-89.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:27 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-169.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:05 -!- instantp10neer_ [~instantp1@user/instantp10neer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:06 -!- instantp10neer [~instantp1@user/instantp10neer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10 < andytoshi> got the 800k font down to 83k by dropping almost all the glyphs and using fontforge to export t42 17:10 < andytoshi> it now pales in comparison to the dragon artwork :) 17:13 -!- freesprung [~freesprun@user/freesprung] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:21 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:21 < andytoshi> roconnor: i found this crazy 1990s site with "gonzo postscript utilities" https://www.tinaja.com/post01.shtml#gonzo .. it's all copyrighted/all rights reserved but there's probably simple tricks and techniques to be learned from this code 17:37 -!- RickSanc_ [~RickSanch@2607:fb90:26:75e:ddd7:72a0:aff5:ca3c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:25 < jeremyrubin> i don't mean to be rude, but the postscript stuff is kinda off topic for bitcoin-wizards... i appreciate if you just need it logged somewhere thoug so by all means don't stop... just i think a bit afield from what people expect here :p 18:29 < andytoshi> yeah, that's fair, we could move the postscript stuff into its own channel 18:30 < andytoshi> i think at this point we're pretty much done with the mathematical parts of this project 18:31 < jeremyrubin> i wouldn't mind having the logs for it, i just get sad when i see "oh boy some big conversation in wizards" and it's ten pages of typesetting :p 18:31 < roconnor> I don't know if meta topics are allowed but IMHO postscript is as much on topic as C++ is for #bitcoin-core-dev. This isn't idle postscript talk; it is directly in relation to a bitcoin related SSS project. 18:32 < jeremyrubin> i would say it would be on-topic for bitcoin-dev/bitcoin-core-dev since it's about the implementation of a tool 18:32 < jeremyrubin> wizards i usually expect to be more about theoretical stuff 18:33 < roconnor> I mean, do we realy want to split up the discussion of how to arrange a circular slide ruler to compute lagrange polynomials and the realization of said slide ruler in postscript? 18:33 < jeremyrubin> but as i said, by all means carry on here if it's the best place for it. a more polite way for me to have phrased might have been "is there a better place for this discussion?" 18:33 < roconnor> that seems like it is dicing up discussion pretty fine. 18:34 < andytoshi> i think this project is ontopic, as is anything related to implementing error correcting codes in postscript, or laying out or implementing volvelles/slide rules 18:34 < andytoshi> i would suggest that justifying text or implementing fonts is probably not 18:34 < andytoshi> but like, that's a pretty fine distinction 18:34 < roconnor> I don't strongly care which channel we use, or if we make a new one. But I think splitting up the theory from the implementation into different channels would be foolish. 18:35 < andytoshi> agreed on all counts 18:35 < andytoshi> although even if we were on a different channel, i'd like -wizards to be informed when we have something to demo 18:36 < jeremyrubin> i definitely want to try it out :) 18:36 < roconnor> sure. Like I think #bitcoin-sss32 or something would be fine. You'd have to ask the mods to make one? or maybe not. 18:36 < roconnor> I can't remember 18:36 < jeremyrubin> i think you have to ask now, and then ask kanzure to log it 18:36 < jeremyrubin> another side benefit is that the logs are more specific 18:37 < jeremyrubin> so then you can more easily search for the sss slide rule content 18:37 < andytoshi> if #bitcoin-wizards had an amount of traffic exceeding "zero most days" i'd agree with you.. 18:38 < jeremyrubin> lol 18:38 < kanzure> greetings 18:38 < andytoshi> anyway i'm happy to join a new channel, but not so motivated to set up a "real" logged channel and so on. if that's something kanzure can do without much work/thought that'd be cool 18:39 < andytoshi> but i think it involves asking the libera mods, -then- asking kanzure about logs? 18:39 < jeremyrubin> anyways i don't mean to be a stick in the mud it's just *very hard* to follow what the discussion is on this and from a casual reader it mostly looks like in the weeds postscript formatting discussion. but i'm not trying to kill your flow; keep it up here i like seeing people working on a cool thing, i just usually think of wizards as a "thinking 18:39 < jeremyrubin> on" v.s. "working on" channel 18:39 < kanzure> why you gotta ask mods 18:39 < andytoshi> i think the bitcoin-* channels are all owned by the bitcoin irc moderators cabal 18:40 < roconnor> IIRC #bitcoin owns the #bitcoin- prefix on libra ... in some sense that I don't quite remember. 18:40 < andytoshi> which i am no longer in, since the LSibera shift 18:41 < andytoshi> on the other hand we could just join #volvelle-wizards and not worry about rules or logging or whatever 18:41 < andytoshi> and come back to -wizards when we're through the next few days of postscript hacking 18:44 < jeremyrubin> whatever suits your working pattern best ultimately is the best option 18:48 < andytoshi> we have moved to #volvelle-wizards. anyone who wants to follow the SSS32 development is welcome to follow 18:48 < andytoshi> we have a bunch of postscript/layout stuff to deal with over the next little bit 18:48 < andytoshi> but when we're done that and it starts being more researchy again, we'll come back 18:49 < jeremyrubin> wheel follow it! 18:50 < andytoshi> lol 18:58 -!- solocshaw [~Thunderbi@gateway/vpn/pia/solocshaw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:59 -!- solocshaw [~Thunderbi@gateway/vpn/pia/solocshaw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:46 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:05 -!- jamesob [sid180710@id-180710.helmsley.irccloud.com] has quit [] 20:50 -!- instantp10neer_ [~instantp1@user/instantp10neer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:56 -!- instantp10neer [~instantp1@user/instantp10neer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:24 -!- roconnor [~roconnor@coq/roconnor] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:57 -!- win [~win@2001:171b:c9b6:4a20:f4db:ce58:59c2:682c] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:57 -!- win is now known as Guest7738 23:05 -!- Guest7738 [~win@2001:171b:c9b6:4a20:f4db:ce58:59c2:682c] has quit [Quit: Client closed] 23:38 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:39 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@id-14990.uxbridge.irccloud.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards --- Log closed Sat Dec 11 00:00:57 2021