--- Log opened Wed Jan 05 00:00:21 2022 00:05 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:07 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:35 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:55 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:58 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:07 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14 -!- cold [~cold@user/cold] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:15 -!- Cory [~Cory@user/pasha] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:34 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:38 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:40 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:40 -!- andrewtoth 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02:20 [ _0x0ff ] [ darosior ] [ hendi ] [ murrayn ] [ sanket1729 ] 02:20 [ _0x1d3 ] [ DeanGuss ] [ hyperion ] [ musalbas ] [ sanket_cell_ ] 02:20 [ _aj_ ] [ deusexbeer ] [ instantp10neer ] [ nanotube ] [ schmidty ] 02:20 [ achow101 ] [ dllud ] [ isthmus ] [ neha ] [ sdaftuar1 ] 02:20 [ adiabat ] [ dodo ] [ Jackielove4u ] [ nickler ] [ soundand1ury ] 02:20 [ Alanius ] [ dongcarl ] [ javi404 ] [ nikuhodai ] [ split ] 02:20 [ AlienTrooper ] [ dr_orlovsky] [ jb55 ] [ ogola ] [ stevenroose ] 02:20 [ amiti ] [ elichai2 ] [ jeremyrubin ] [ otoburb ] [ stoner19 ] 02:20 [ Amnesia ] [ emcy_ ] [ jesseposner ] [ paairs ] [ takinbo ] 02:20 [ andrewtoth_ ] [ EmmyNoether] [ jnewbery ] [ panpan_ ] [ tromp ] 02:20 [ andytoshi ] [ emzy ] [ johnzwen- ] [ pin_ ] [ u221f_ ] 02:20 [ Apocalyptic ] [ evbo ] [ jonasschnelli_ ] [ pinheadmz ] [ uasf ] 02:20 [ ariard ] [ FelixWeis ] [ jonatack ] [ plankton ] [ vicsn2 ] 02:20 [ b10c ] [ fluffypony ] [ jrayhawk ] [ Psynthax ] [ vtnerd_ ] 02:20 [ b10c_ ] [ freesprung ] [ kanzure ] [ rachelfish ] [ vysn ] 02:20 [ belcher ] [ gazab ] [ Keele ] [ real_or_random] [ waxwing ] 02:20 [ berndj ] [ geyaeb ] [ kexkey ] [ remote ] [ willcl_ark ] 02:20 [ bfsfhkacjzgcytf] [ ghost43 ] [ koolazer ] [ roasbeef ] [ windsok ] 02:20 [ bitdex ] [ gnusha ] [ laanwj ] [ robot-dreams ] [ yakshaver ] 02:20 [ blkncd ] [ greypw254 ] [ Leonard ] [ rockhouse ] [ yanmaani ] 02:20 [ BlueMatt ] [ gribble ] [ Liliaceae ] [ roconnor ] [ yuanti ] 02:20 [ boxframes_ ] [ grubman9001] [ livestradamus ] [ ron-slc ] [ zegalch ] 02:20 [ BUSY ] [ Guest985 ] [ luke-jr ] [ rottenstonks ] [ ZeroMaster ] 02:20 [ bw ] [ Guyver2 ] [ MarcoFalke ] [ RubenSomsen ] [ zkao ] 02:20 [ cdecker[m] ] [ harding ] [ MatrixBot1234510] [ ryan-c ] 02:20 [ Common ] [ harrow ] [ meshcollider ] [ s0ph1a ] 02:20 [ copumpkin ] [ heath ] [ michaelfolkson ] [ S3RK ] 02:20 -!- Irssi: #bitcoin-wizards: Total of 137 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 136 normal] 02:20 -!- Channel #bitcoin-wizards created Wed May 19 06:51:00 2021 02:22 -!- Irssi: Join to #bitcoin-wizards was synced in 130 secs 02:34 -!- geyaeb [~geyaeb@gateway/tor-sasl/geyaeb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34 -!- geyaeb [~geyaeb@gateway/tor-sasl/geyaeb] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:35 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:38 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:54 -!- solocshaw [~Thunderbi@gateway/vpn/pia/solocshaw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:56 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:58 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:04 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:25 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has quit 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ZZZzzz…] 14:35 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:35 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:37 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:39 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:43 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:49 < jeremyrubin> this doesn't really relate to APO in particular (because of key tagging), for reasons i can get into, but something that occured to me while talking to roconnor is that we shouldn't upgrade sighash flags 14:49 -!- rottenwheel [~rottenwhe@user/rottenwheel] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:49 -!- RCasatta[m] [~rcasattam@2001:470:69fc:105::c85] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:49 -!- kakolainen[m] [~kakolaine@2001:470:69fc:105::34f9] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:49 -!- sipa [~sipa@user/sipa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:49 -!- ademan[m] [~ademanmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:16db] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:49 -!- robertspigler [~robertspi@2001:470:69fc:105::2d53] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:49 -!- merkle_noob[m] [~merklenoo@2001:470:69fc:105::bad0] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:49 < jeremyrubin> because when i make an address that has e.g. Checksig, i am receiving to CHecksig where I know all the ways that PK could sign at the time i create it 14:50 < jeremyrubin> but when a new sighash flag is added it is *retroactively* changing the script that i authorized without my explicit consent 14:50 < jeremyrubin> one can argue that the social-contract for CheckSig is such that things can be added later, so users shouldn't use checksig without expecting that 14:51 < jeremyrubin> the counterargument is that we don't have an alternative way to sign txns 14:51 < jeremyrubin> and taproot locks in sighash flags in the top-level key 14:52 < jeremyrubin> one solution is (OP_CAT) based for script paths that you could commit to the flags expected in the script 14:52 < roconnor> signatures cover the sighash, so I don't see a problem myself. 14:52 < jeremyrubin> or a new "checksigflagsverify" op 14:53 < jeremyrubin> roconnor: it can't lead to unauthorized moves, but it does increase the set of types of things that could be auhtorized 14:53 < jeremyrubin> which is itself a type of unauthorized move 14:53 < jeremyrubin> i think a good counter is that "if you can sign with X you can move coins to X' where X' enables new feature" 14:54 < jeremyrubin> so i'm not sure it's a practical issue to form 14:54 < jeremyrubin> it's also soft fork friendly because I think the CheckSig social contract is "sign with unknown flags tx automatically valid" or something 14:55 < jeremyrubin> but just a note that it's a little weird to me 14:55 < roconnor> that said I don't think there is any free space for new sighashes in taproot. 14:55 < jeremyrubin> there is 14:55 < jeremyrubin> APO? 14:55 < roconnor> so you'd have to opt in with some redefined OP_SUCCESS. 14:56 < jeremyrubin> APO uses new key types, but I don't think you'd have to do that 14:56 < roconnor> I beleive you need to do something like that. 14:56 < roconnor> new key type or new opcode or something. 14:56 < jeremyrubin> https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/07/09/bip-118-sighash-chart/ 14:57 < jeremyrubin> that's my understanding of the sighashes used... i though there's some empty bits still 14:57 < roconnor> "The following restrictions apply, which cause validation failure if violated: 14:57 < roconnor> Using any undefined hash_type (not 0x00, 0x01, 0x02, 0x03, 0x81, 0x82, or 0x83[12]). 14:58 < roconnor> -- bip-341 14:59 < jeremyrubin> TIL 14:59 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:00 < jeremyrubin> roconnor is that only for key path spending though 15:01 < jeremyrubin> i guess inherently, as taproot leafs could have whatever semantic 15:01 < jeremyrubin> but i mean in the current c0 leaf version 15:01 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:02 < roconnor> my reading of bip-342 is that it runs the SigMsg algorithm defined in bip-341 that has the hash_type restiction built into it. 15:04 < jeremyrubin> interesting 15:05 < jeremyrubin> i wonder if it makes more sense to make BIP-118 just use a diff opcode for checksig and not tag the keys 15:05 < jeremyrubin> save a byte 15:06 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:06 < jeremyrubin> IIRC the case of using just the taproot key for APO is unlikely since you need a state update key and a program key? 15:06 < jeremyrubin> (and APO currently has <1> as a key standin for the taproot internal key) 15:07 < roconnor> I would like to see OP_INTERNALKEY, but I haven't studied the issue. 15:08 < jeremyrubin> it's in BIP-118 essentially 15:08 < jeremyrubin> i do agree actually that OP_INTERNALKEY is better tho, but with the APO approach you need to have OP_INTERNALKEY and OP_INTERNALKEYAPOENABLED 15:09 < jeremyrubin> i think i suggested somewhere that <0> and <1> could be shortand for internal, and internalwithapo 15:09 < jeremyrubin> rather than making just 'internal with apo' cheaper 15:09 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:10 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat] 15:10 < jeremyrubin> I guess you want to actually get the internal key on the stack? 15:10 < jeremyrubin> also interesting note: OP_EXTERNALKEY and OP_INTERNALKEY also both have covenanting implications 15:11 < roconnor> ya, maybe you want to tweak it or hash it or something. 15:11 < jeremyrubin> because internal key could itself have a hidden script tree 15:11 < jeremyrubin> and OP_EXTERNALKEY would allow recrusive stuff 15:12 < jeremyrubin> roconnor: i'd love to see a RISC approach to OP_TLUV 15:12 < roconnor> hmm, not part of element's new tapscript opcodes. Something to think about I guess. 15:14 -!- yanmaani [~yanmaani@gateway/tor-sasl/yanmaani] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:16 -!- jb55 [~jb55@user/jb55] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:16 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:22 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat] 15:22 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:26 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:27 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:33 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat] 15:34 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:35 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:35 < roconnor> oh my notes say that you can derive it from OP_INSPECTINPUTSCRIPTPUBKEY if you try hard enough. 15:35 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:39 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:41 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:42 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat] 15:44 -!- amnrst [~amnrst@45-79-201-163.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:04 -!- yanmaani [~yanmaani@gateway/tor-sasl/yanmaani] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:04 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:08 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:10 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:11 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35 -!- Leonard [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35 -!- Leonardzzz [~Administr@114.55.127.80] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:58 -!- lukedashjr [~luke-jr@user/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:00 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@user/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:00 -!- lukedashjr is now known as luke-jr 18:02 -!- b10c__ [uid500648@user/b10c] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:38 -!- vysn [~vysn@user/vysn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:01 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:02 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:27 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:47 -!- jb55 [~jb55@user/jb55] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:38 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38 -!- zoiahorn_ [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:35 -!- ghost43 [~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36 -!- ghost43 [~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:40 -!- zoiahorn_ [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:48 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:55 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:00 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:04 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:08 -!- cold [~cold@user/cold] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:08 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:29 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29 -!- zoiahorn_ [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:38 -!- zoiahorn_ [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:13 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:14 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:17 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:39 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40 -!- zoiahorn [~zoiahorn@173.205.92.152] has joined #bitcoin-wizards --- Log closed Thu Jan 06 00:00:22 2022