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19:16 < Ademan> is there a way to make either signature sharing atomic or musig partial sig sharing atomic? I sketched up a multiparty eltoo protocol and as I'm sitting here implementing a PoC for it, I'm discovering a lot, bad descriptions but also a pretty important flaw. As designed, every party shares one signature with the rest of the channel partners. But if one party manages to collect the other signatures 
19:16 < Ademan> without sharing theirs, they would be the only one that can publish the latest channel state, and that's a problem for multiple reasons but especially in a penalty scenario, where now the honest parties can't even close the channel (uncooperatively), since they could be penalized by the dishonest party.
19:17 < Ademan> A bit of googling turned up "multiparty fair exchange" protocols, so I assume there's something out there. Is there a go-to algorithm out there?
19:46 < _aj_> Ademan: i don't think there is; you usually just rely on "either they publish the multisig, and everyone's good; or they don't, and we resolve via the failure path / earlier state, which isn't as good but still is acceptable"
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19:56 < Ademan> _aj_: hrm, that might be a fatal problem, that really sucks
19:57 < sipa> perfectly fair exchange is fundamentally impossible
19:57 < sipa> the last party kan always fail to send a message, which means the receiver will know at least 1 bit less than them
20:08 < Ademan> I'm not sure if it's enough to have the "sender" share their signature first either...
20:10 < _aj_> Ademan: if it's for LN-like things, you just have to accept that at least for a while both state N and N+1 are valid and unpunishable
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20:52 < Ademan> hrm maybe it's not fatal, although it does complicate this already convoluted scheme
21:07 < _aj_> complicating convulted schemes sure sounds like wizardry to me
21:27 < Ademan> I'm afraid I'm just baffling myself with bullshit but we'll see haha
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--- Log closed Tue Jan 07 00:00:41 2025