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| manaka | do you guys think that sidechains will ever become centralized | 00:35 |
|---|---|---|
| sipa | sidechains are an idea... some specific sidechains may well be centralized | 00:36 |
| manaka | ok, but do you see a way to centralize all blockchains to a single sidechain? | 00:37 |
| sipa | sure, make bitcoin a frontend for paypal | 00:37 |
| sipa | i mean: of course that is possible if people want that - but why would we want that? | 00:37 |
| manaka | what i mean is make a sidechain a connector of all blockchains | 00:38 |
| sipa | sidechains are just depending on independent blockchains that support looking at eachother | 00:39 |
| sipa | your question really doesn't make sense | 00:39 |
| sipa | what is a 'connector' ? | 00:39 |
| manaka | something like blocknet | 00:39 |
| manaka | they are doing a p2p cross trading | 00:39 |
| manaka | and tokenizing it | 00:39 |
| sipa | right :) | 00:40 |
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| Taek | I realize that the implementation is likely to be different for each sidechain, but where do block subidies come from for miners on sidechains? Just fees? | 09:53 |
| sipa | read the paper | 09:53 |
| sipa | section 6.1 | 09:54 |
| Taek | >.< sorry | 09:54 |
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| fds4345 | Hows about an evolutionary algorithm as a proof of work? Choose a model of reasonable complexity, then the goal is to find a more efficient configuration (which should be easy to verify and to quantify). | 15:24 |
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| nsh | .head https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/alts.pdf | 15:29 |
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| nsh | .to andytoshi if your website down? | 15:29 |
| yoleaux | nsh: I'll pass your message to andytoshi. | 15:29 |
| yoleaux | nsh: Sorry, that command (.head) crashed. | 15:29 |
| BlueMatt | nsh: iirc hes having problems with his canadian vps or something | 15:30 |
| nsh | ah | 15:30 |
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| nsh | fds4345, have you read http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/alts.pdf ? | 15:32 |
| nsh | not sure there's a canonical write-up on the theoretic issues of 'useful' PoW algorithms | 15:33 |
| nsh | probably between several dozen stackexchange answers | 15:33 |
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| nsh | e.g. https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/20879/why-cant-we-design-a-bitcoin-that-does-useful-work lists a few things | 15:33 |
| nsh | but doesn't mention progress-freeness | 15:34 |
| nsh | oh, sorry, this pertains more than alts.pdf: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/asic-faq.pdf | 15:35 |
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| fds4345 | just read alts.pdf, didnt seem relevant (not complete either :)) | 15:38 |
| nsh | fds4345, so looking at that SE answer and sections 4,5 of asic-faq.pdf (but it wouldn't hurt to read it all), can you imagine a way to conserve those properties while (incidentally) searching some configuration space against an efficiency objective function? | 15:38 |
| fds4345 | I have read asic-faq | 15:39 |
| nsh | i don't think it's impossible in principle | 15:39 |
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| nsh | but i'm not sure you could achieve any kind of useful performance that would mean you're decreasing the total entropy production compared to having the mining and searching done separately | 15:41 |
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| fds4345 | nsh: the algorithm is assumed to be brute force, and people should be encouraged to try to find inefficiencies in it just as any cryptographic algorithm is audited. | 15:44 |
| Eliel | fds4345: hmmh... it's kind of difficult to say if what you suggest is progress free or not. That'd depend on implementation details. Also, sounds like it'd be difficult to tune the difficulty level. | 15:48 |
| nsh | well, you can have the difficulty be adjunct | 15:50 |
| nsh | (so you present a hash output with some amount of zeros with any valid solution) | 15:51 |
| fds4345 | Well, I suppose that it's brute force. A "perfect" evolutionary model should be "non reversible". Otherwise there's an inefficiency in the model, which is itself interesting (but potentially not reconcilable with the delicate needs of a viable currency. As an investment though...) | 15:51 |
| nsh | actually, maybe not that easy. nm | 15:51 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Oct 27 00:00:31 2014 | ||
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