2014-11-14.log

--- Log opened Fri Nov 14 00:00:50 2014
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gmaxwellThe recently chartered TCPINC (increased security) working group will be meeting at 0900 in the morning (hawaii time, gmt-10); discussed will be TCPcrypt (which is a really awesome and simple extension to tcp to add oppturnistic encryption) ... and a couple other proposals to not use that and instead use TLS, which I think are pretty bad ... because TLS.00:31
gmaxwellhttps://tools.ietf.org/wg/tcpinc/agenda is the agenda (and links to the drafts and list archive), if you'd like to listen/participate there is a jabber chat rppm at tcpinc@jabber.ietf.org  (though if you're going to participate you shoul checkout the agenda and the drafts: https://tools.ietf.org/wg/tcpinc/agenda ) because the proposers of TCPcrypt are not very IETF savvy and the people pushing the TLS alternatives are very ietf ...00:33
gmaxwell... savvy; I expect it to get steamrolled pretty hard.00:33
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gmaxwellMay be of some interest to folks around here.00:35
phantomcircuitgmaxwell, tls for opportunistic encryption of tcp?00:38
phantomcircuitlol wat00:38
gmaxwellyea, the proposal to use TLS is (IMO) daft, http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rescorla-tcpinc-tls-option-0100:40
gmaxwellPeople bitch that e.g. protocols from SDOs are sabotaged.... but if you don't show up to participate, ... well.. it's pretty easy to do so.00:43
phantomcircuitgmaxwell, there is a picture of a rotting foot in that presentation00:45
phantomcircuitwat00:45
gmaxwellI think it's a foot-gunned foot.00:46
phantomcircuitstill00:46
phantomcircuitcome on00:46
gmaxwellalso.. pictures in an ietf presentation? man. ietf presentations should almost never have pictures. This is what I mean that the proposers are not that expirenced. (compare to the chair slides)00:47
gmaxwellin any case, remote participants in the IETF are in-theory equal to people locally (clue weighed of course), I'm not one to stack rooms by calling for lots of clueless people; but I do think this is an area with lots of leverage for improving the internet; and one where lots of people who are regulars in _this_ room are qualified to have opinions.00:48
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phantomcircuitgmaxwell, do you have a list of improvements to for merkle trees somewhere? (outside your head of course)01:01
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gmaxwellphantomcircuit: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-trans-rfc6962-bis-04.txt < the design in this document is a good basic hash tree.01:05
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phantomcircuitgmaxwell, looks pretty standard except for perturbing an internal node differently from a leaf01:11
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phantomcircuitha oops current merkle tree code is wrong01:19
phantomcircuitderp01:19
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petertod1phantomcircuit: fwiw I wound up doing a bit of yak shaving and making that merbinner tree stuff into a bit of a serialization library; gonna have to write up a solid merkle tree implementation for it before long05:42
petertod1phantomcircuit: well, actually, by yak shaving, I mean there's like a whole herd of very pissed off yaks out there right now...05:43
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petertod1gmaxwell: oh, that's neat, just noticed rfc6962's algorithm is basically identical to my MMR construction, though I think they have a much better definition05:47
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petertod1phantomcircuit: note too how in general you can always take hash functions and generalize them to summation functions if you want the merkle-summed version of an algorithm05:50
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kanzurenot quite directly applicable to bitcoin, but makes me think: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2//Predicting%20change%20propagation%20in%20complex%20design.pdf07:53
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nshkanzure, paper does not summarize any findings in abstract/introduction08:52
nshpresumably, nothing of value was determined08:52
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kanzureoh sure, you won't really regret not reading it08:53
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* nsh nods09:10
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maaku"In conclusion, we wasted 15 minutes of your valuable time in reading this paper."10:11
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sipamaaku: ?14:32
maakusipa: joking off of <nsh> presumably, nothing of value was determined14:33
kanzurereading papers is so fiat, obviously the right thing to do is to use induction and skip the whole thing14:43
kanzureer, or inference.14:44
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--- Log closed Sat Nov 15 00:00:51 2014

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