| --- Log opened Fri Nov 14 00:00:50 2014 | ||
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| gmaxwell | The recently chartered TCPINC (increased security) working group will be meeting at 0900 in the morning (hawaii time, gmt-10); discussed will be TCPcrypt (which is a really awesome and simple extension to tcp to add oppturnistic encryption) ... and a couple other proposals to not use that and instead use TLS, which I think are pretty bad ... because TLS. | 00:31 |
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| gmaxwell | https://tools.ietf.org/wg/tcpinc/agenda is the agenda (and links to the drafts and list archive), if you'd like to listen/participate there is a jabber chat rppm at tcpinc@jabber.ietf.org (though if you're going to participate you shoul checkout the agenda and the drafts: https://tools.ietf.org/wg/tcpinc/agenda ) because the proposers of TCPcrypt are not very IETF savvy and the people pushing the TLS alternatives are very ietf ... | 00:33 |
| gmaxwell | ... savvy; I expect it to get steamrolled pretty hard. | 00:33 |
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| gmaxwell | May be of some interest to folks around here. | 00:35 |
| phantomcircuit | gmaxwell, tls for opportunistic encryption of tcp? | 00:38 |
| phantomcircuit | lol wat | 00:38 |
| gmaxwell | yea, the proposal to use TLS is (IMO) daft, http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rescorla-tcpinc-tls-option-01 | 00:40 |
| gmaxwell | People bitch that e.g. protocols from SDOs are sabotaged.... but if you don't show up to participate, ... well.. it's pretty easy to do so. | 00:43 |
| phantomcircuit | gmaxwell, there is a picture of a rotting foot in that presentation | 00:45 |
| phantomcircuit | wat | 00:45 |
| gmaxwell | I think it's a foot-gunned foot. | 00:46 |
| phantomcircuit | still | 00:46 |
| phantomcircuit | come on | 00:46 |
| gmaxwell | also.. pictures in an ietf presentation? man. ietf presentations should almost never have pictures. This is what I mean that the proposers are not that expirenced. (compare to the chair slides) | 00:47 |
| gmaxwell | in any case, remote participants in the IETF are in-theory equal to people locally (clue weighed of course), I'm not one to stack rooms by calling for lots of clueless people; but I do think this is an area with lots of leverage for improving the internet; and one where lots of people who are regulars in _this_ room are qualified to have opinions. | 00:48 |
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| phantomcircuit | gmaxwell, do you have a list of improvements to for merkle trees somewhere? (outside your head of course) | 01:01 |
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| gmaxwell | phantomcircuit: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-trans-rfc6962-bis-04.txt < the design in this document is a good basic hash tree. | 01:05 |
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| phantomcircuit | gmaxwell, looks pretty standard except for perturbing an internal node differently from a leaf | 01:11 |
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| phantomcircuit | ha oops current merkle tree code is wrong | 01:19 |
| phantomcircuit | derp | 01:19 |
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| petertod1 | phantomcircuit: fwiw I wound up doing a bit of yak shaving and making that merbinner tree stuff into a bit of a serialization library; gonna have to write up a solid merkle tree implementation for it before long | 05:42 |
| petertod1 | phantomcircuit: well, actually, by yak shaving, I mean there's like a whole herd of very pissed off yaks out there right now... | 05:43 |
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| petertod1 | gmaxwell: oh, that's neat, just noticed rfc6962's algorithm is basically identical to my MMR construction, though I think they have a much better definition | 05:47 |
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| petertod1 | phantomcircuit: note too how in general you can always take hash functions and generalize them to summation functions if you want the merkle-summed version of an algorithm | 05:50 |
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| kanzure | not quite directly applicable to bitcoin, but makes me think: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2//Predicting%20change%20propagation%20in%20complex%20design.pdf | 07:53 |
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| nsh | kanzure, paper does not summarize any findings in abstract/introduction | 08:52 |
| nsh | presumably, nothing of value was determined | 08:52 |
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| kanzure | oh sure, you won't really regret not reading it | 08:53 |
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| * nsh nods | 09:10 | |
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| maaku | "In conclusion, we wasted 15 minutes of your valuable time in reading this paper." | 10:11 |
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| sipa | maaku: ? | 14:32 |
| maaku | sipa: joking off of <nsh> presumably, nothing of value was determined | 14:33 |
| kanzure | reading papers is so fiat, obviously the right thing to do is to use induction and skip the whole thing | 14:43 |
| kanzure | er, or inference. | 14:44 |
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| --- Log closed Sat Nov 15 00:00:51 2014 | ||
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