2015-01-22.log

--- Log opened Thu Jan 22 00:00:31 2015
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stonecoldpatso... is anyone bringing a suit to FC for the dinners...?12:10
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gavinandresenstonecoldpat: you mean a bathing suit?  Yes, a couple.12:14
stonecoldpatgavinandresen: oh yes, ill have a few of those too :). although i mean a formal suit? (i'm guessing not due to the heat, but i dont want to be the only person without one, its happened once before and that was embarassing!)12:16
op_mulworse than being the only person wearing a suit.12:16
op_mulless worse.12:17
op_mulbetter.12:17
gavinandresenstonecoldpat: I don’t think I saw any suits or ties at IFCA12:19
stonecoldpatmmm i don't know which one is worse lol both are embarassing :( ive never known people to want to wear them at conferences, but then i've only ever attended soups12:19
andytoshistonecoldpat: i have no formal clothing, i will not bring any12:19
stonecoldpatandytoshi: awesome, at least that's two people without a suit, less embarassing ;)12:20
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tromp__andytoshi: the day i got formal clothing is the day i got married12:29
kanzureformal suits.... you guys are awful hackers.12:30
op_mulkanzure: it's fine, gmax has enough wizard beard to cover the deficit.12:30
Luke-JrI'll wear a suit to church, but that's it. who cares if I'm the only one not in suit :p12:32
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fluffyponyoh wow, so technical ability is measured by facial hair and lack of formal attire?12:33
fluffyponywho knew.12:34
andytoshifluffypony: yes, github converts those directly for c++ for us12:34
fluffyponyhah12:34
fluffyponypersonal hygiene points are directly proportional to github stars!a12:34
Luke-Jrfluffypony: pfft, formal attire is not a matter of hygiene at all12:35
op_mulyou can put a suit on a pig but it won't smell any better.12:35
fluffyponyI prefer putting lipstick on a pig12:36
fluffyponymmmmm, bacon12:36
stonecoldpatit does have some truth, when i had a job, the joke was the clients who visited the company wouldnt trust us if the developers wore suits (as they assumed it was a second sales force)12:36
op_mulyeah. I've seen that with woman too :(12:37
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midnightmagic+1 andytoshi and his lack of formal clothing!13:12
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zooko`gmaxwell: done14:42
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nshzooko, did you change your twitter name to your walletname? or do i follow another person with that name somehow15:04
nshwait, nm, i'm being an idiot15:04
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lechuga_gmaxwell: ack strictder19:38
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rustyandytoshi: I'd like to see a more comprehensive appendix describing all the mistakes made in altcoins... I keep learning of new ones which everyone else seems to know about.19:59
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op_mulrusty: there's so many altcoin mistakes that it's hard to keep up with them. there's an endless stream of grindable Proof Of X, failed difficulty adjustments, too fast blocks, insane proof of stake stuff, ridiculous centralisation, total lack of consensus22:24
op_mula new one I saw recently is "proof of time", where somehow consensus is gained by watching the uptime of every other peer in the network. because peers can't trust each other, every node connects to every other node (who the hell knows what happens if a peer is behind NAT).22:25
nshsounds pretty profound tbh22:26
op_multhere's "proof of storage", where nodes instead of mining do partial lookups on huge rainbow tables of precomputed work. only problem is that nodes can trivially grind blocks to find winning chains just like in proof of stake.22:27
nshand catastrophic failure of consensus shouldn't hold anyone back... cf. https://www.stellar.org/blog/safety_liveness_and_fault_tolerance_consensus_choice/22:28
op_mulone alcoin tried to make a non outsoureable proof of work system that queries the UTXO of the node.. only they query it and then append the nonce. the end result is just that there's stratum servers pumping out megabytes a minute of work and causing even more centralisation than before.22:28
tacotime_oh, speaking of which22:29
tacotime_spreadcoin does a thing that tries to provide a non-outsourceable puzzle as opposed to regular header hashing22:29
tacotime_where you have to fill the block with garbage, signed the entire thing, then hash it22:30
tacotime_s/signed/sign22:30
op_mulmore altcoins than I can count have tried to "improve" the difficulty system by adding rapid adjustments (even down to every block), either resulting in huge swings in block time or trivial attacks. it has a fancy name, "gravity well"22:30
tacotime_and then no one is supposed to be able to pool because you need to sign the entire block with the same key as the coinbase tx22:30
op_mulwhat happens if there's more than one key in the coinbase transaction?22:32
tacotime_but i keep feeling like i'm not sure that works22:32
tacotime_i think you can only have one key22:33
op_mulit's possible they just didn't think of that.22:34
tacotime_yeah. but in the event that that is true, i guess my question would be, could you make pools still?22:34
op_mulon the face of it I don't see how you could22:35
tacotime_it seems like such a simple modification that if it were to work, i imagine satoshi would have thought of it22:36
op_mulwhy can't these altcoins ever fork from bitcoin core. this source is like. 0.6 vintage.22:36
tacotime_and not having pools doesn't necessarily mean that mining is decentralized. probably it ends up still centralized in a bunch of bigger miners.22:37
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op_mulreturn error("CheckSignature() : coinbase doesn't have exactly one output");22:37
tacotime_ah22:38
tacotime_so they did think of it22:38
tacotime_there's a padding thing they do for the blocks that they claim encourages people to fill the blocks with tx or some bs22:39
tacotime_which is just a recursive formula that you can probably run iteratively22:39
tacotime_s/iteratively/imperatively22:40
op_mulhm, they don't resign every nonce, just every 64 nonces.22:40
tacotime_oh, that's weird22:40
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tacotime_i think the padding thing is probably not doing what the author thinks it does, but the super simple non outsourceable puzzle might be a neat idea if no one can figure out how to break it22:42
* op_mul rolls eyes22:42
tacotime_i keep feeling like it should be obvious and i'm missing something22:42
op_mulof course. it's based on darkcoin. that's why it's full of nonsense.22:42
tacotime_hahahaha22:42
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tacotime_could be worse. cryptonite's code is a pretty confusing trainwreck.22:43
op_mulyeah. want to know why I don't run it?22:43
tacotime_why?22:43
fluffyponywell its better now, the refactored blockchainDB class is amazing compared to the uncommented crap we had before22:43
op_mulwell. just the code scares me. '22:43
tacotime_fluffypony: not us, i mean the mini blockchain thing22:43
tacotime_that decided to use the same name as our hashing algo22:44
tacotime_op_mul: ah22:44
fluffyponyoh yes22:44
tacotime_i'm surprised it even runs22:44
fluffyponylol22:44
op_multhat they went down the path of "M7" proof of work is just nuts.22:44
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op_mulnesting hashes is too common, lets *multiply* them for super secure hashing.22:45
tacotime_lol. xor 10000x for enhanced s3cur1ty22:45
fluffyponyhah22:47
fluffyponyI'll never understand this obsession with chaining hashes22:47
fluffyponyI read a comment the other day espousing Darkcoin's PoW as being "low power"22:47
tacotime_fluffypony: everyone is determined to see how long it takes for someone to make an asic with an instruction cache22:48
fluffyponyheaven forbid you point out that "low power" == "not running at full efficiency"22:48
* fluffypony already has one22:48
fluffypony:-P22:48
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