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| stonecoldpat | so... is anyone bringing a suit to FC for the dinners...? | 12:10 |
|---|---|---|
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| gavinandresen | stonecoldpat: you mean a bathing suit? Yes, a couple. | 12:14 |
| stonecoldpat | gavinandresen: oh yes, ill have a few of those too :). although i mean a formal suit? (i'm guessing not due to the heat, but i dont want to be the only person without one, its happened once before and that was embarassing!) | 12:16 |
| op_mul | worse than being the only person wearing a suit. | 12:16 |
| op_mul | less worse. | 12:17 |
| op_mul | better. | 12:17 |
| gavinandresen | stonecoldpat: I don’t think I saw any suits or ties at IFCA | 12:19 |
| stonecoldpat | mmm i don't know which one is worse lol both are embarassing :( ive never known people to want to wear them at conferences, but then i've only ever attended soups | 12:19 |
| andytoshi | stonecoldpat: i have no formal clothing, i will not bring any | 12:19 |
| stonecoldpat | andytoshi: awesome, at least that's two people without a suit, less embarassing ;) | 12:20 |
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| tromp__ | andytoshi: the day i got formal clothing is the day i got married | 12:29 |
| kanzure | formal suits.... you guys are awful hackers. | 12:30 |
| op_mul | kanzure: it's fine, gmax has enough wizard beard to cover the deficit. | 12:30 |
| Luke-Jr | I'll wear a suit to church, but that's it. who cares if I'm the only one not in suit :p | 12:32 |
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| fluffypony | oh wow, so technical ability is measured by facial hair and lack of formal attire? | 12:33 |
| fluffypony | who knew. | 12:34 |
| andytoshi | fluffypony: yes, github converts those directly for c++ for us | 12:34 |
| fluffypony | hah | 12:34 |
| fluffypony | personal hygiene points are directly proportional to github stars!a | 12:34 |
| Luke-Jr | fluffypony: pfft, formal attire is not a matter of hygiene at all | 12:35 |
| op_mul | you can put a suit on a pig but it won't smell any better. | 12:35 |
| fluffypony | I prefer putting lipstick on a pig | 12:36 |
| fluffypony | mmmmm, bacon | 12:36 |
| stonecoldpat | it does have some truth, when i had a job, the joke was the clients who visited the company wouldnt trust us if the developers wore suits (as they assumed it was a second sales force) | 12:36 |
| op_mul | yeah. I've seen that with woman too :( | 12:37 |
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| midnightmagic | +1 andytoshi and his lack of formal clothing! | 13:12 |
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| zooko` | gmaxwell: done | 14:42 |
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| nsh | zooko, did you change your twitter name to your walletname? or do i follow another person with that name somehow | 15:04 |
| nsh | wait, nm, i'm being an idiot | 15:04 |
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| lechuga_ | gmaxwell: ack strictder | 19:38 |
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| rusty | andytoshi: I'd like to see a more comprehensive appendix describing all the mistakes made in altcoins... I keep learning of new ones which everyone else seems to know about. | 19:59 |
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| op_mul | rusty: there's so many altcoin mistakes that it's hard to keep up with them. there's an endless stream of grindable Proof Of X, failed difficulty adjustments, too fast blocks, insane proof of stake stuff, ridiculous centralisation, total lack of consensus | 22:24 |
| op_mul | a new one I saw recently is "proof of time", where somehow consensus is gained by watching the uptime of every other peer in the network. because peers can't trust each other, every node connects to every other node (who the hell knows what happens if a peer is behind NAT). | 22:25 |
| nsh | sounds pretty profound tbh | 22:26 |
| op_mul | there's "proof of storage", where nodes instead of mining do partial lookups on huge rainbow tables of precomputed work. only problem is that nodes can trivially grind blocks to find winning chains just like in proof of stake. | 22:27 |
| nsh | and catastrophic failure of consensus shouldn't hold anyone back... cf. https://www.stellar.org/blog/safety_liveness_and_fault_tolerance_consensus_choice/ | 22:28 |
| op_mul | one alcoin tried to make a non outsoureable proof of work system that queries the UTXO of the node.. only they query it and then append the nonce. the end result is just that there's stratum servers pumping out megabytes a minute of work and causing even more centralisation than before. | 22:28 |
| tacotime_ | oh, speaking of which | 22:29 |
| tacotime_ | spreadcoin does a thing that tries to provide a non-outsourceable puzzle as opposed to regular header hashing | 22:29 |
| tacotime_ | where you have to fill the block with garbage, signed the entire thing, then hash it | 22:30 |
| tacotime_ | s/signed/sign | 22:30 |
| op_mul | more altcoins than I can count have tried to "improve" the difficulty system by adding rapid adjustments (even down to every block), either resulting in huge swings in block time or trivial attacks. it has a fancy name, "gravity well" | 22:30 |
| tacotime_ | and then no one is supposed to be able to pool because you need to sign the entire block with the same key as the coinbase tx | 22:30 |
| op_mul | what happens if there's more than one key in the coinbase transaction? | 22:32 |
| tacotime_ | but i keep feeling like i'm not sure that works | 22:32 |
| tacotime_ | i think you can only have one key | 22:33 |
| op_mul | it's possible they just didn't think of that. | 22:34 |
| tacotime_ | yeah. but in the event that that is true, i guess my question would be, could you make pools still? | 22:34 |
| op_mul | on the face of it I don't see how you could | 22:35 |
| tacotime_ | it seems like such a simple modification that if it were to work, i imagine satoshi would have thought of it | 22:36 |
| op_mul | why can't these altcoins ever fork from bitcoin core. this source is like. 0.6 vintage. | 22:36 |
| tacotime_ | and not having pools doesn't necessarily mean that mining is decentralized. probably it ends up still centralized in a bunch of bigger miners. | 22:37 |
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| op_mul | return error("CheckSignature() : coinbase doesn't have exactly one output"); | 22:37 |
| tacotime_ | ah | 22:38 |
| tacotime_ | so they did think of it | 22:38 |
| tacotime_ | there's a padding thing they do for the blocks that they claim encourages people to fill the blocks with tx or some bs | 22:39 |
| tacotime_ | which is just a recursive formula that you can probably run iteratively | 22:39 |
| tacotime_ | s/iteratively/imperatively | 22:40 |
| op_mul | hm, they don't resign every nonce, just every 64 nonces. | 22:40 |
| tacotime_ | oh, that's weird | 22:40 |
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| tacotime_ | i think the padding thing is probably not doing what the author thinks it does, but the super simple non outsourceable puzzle might be a neat idea if no one can figure out how to break it | 22:42 |
| * op_mul rolls eyes | 22:42 | |
| tacotime_ | i keep feeling like it should be obvious and i'm missing something | 22:42 |
| op_mul | of course. it's based on darkcoin. that's why it's full of nonsense. | 22:42 |
| tacotime_ | hahahaha | 22:42 |
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| tacotime_ | could be worse. cryptonite's code is a pretty confusing trainwreck. | 22:43 |
| op_mul | yeah. want to know why I don't run it? | 22:43 |
| tacotime_ | why? | 22:43 |
| fluffypony | well its better now, the refactored blockchainDB class is amazing compared to the uncommented crap we had before | 22:43 |
| op_mul | well. just the code scares me. ' | 22:43 |
| tacotime_ | fluffypony: not us, i mean the mini blockchain thing | 22:43 |
| tacotime_ | that decided to use the same name as our hashing algo | 22:44 |
| tacotime_ | op_mul: ah | 22:44 |
| fluffypony | oh yes | 22:44 |
| tacotime_ | i'm surprised it even runs | 22:44 |
| fluffypony | lol | 22:44 |
| op_mul | that they went down the path of "M7" proof of work is just nuts. | 22:44 |
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| op_mul | nesting hashes is too common, lets *multiply* them for super secure hashing. | 22:45 |
| tacotime_ | lol. xor 10000x for enhanced s3cur1ty | 22:45 |
| fluffypony | hah | 22:47 |
| fluffypony | I'll never understand this obsession with chaining hashes | 22:47 |
| fluffypony | I read a comment the other day espousing Darkcoin's PoW as being "low power" | 22:47 |
| tacotime_ | fluffypony: everyone is determined to see how long it takes for someone to make an asic with an instruction cache | 22:48 |
| fluffypony | heaven forbid you point out that "low power" == "not running at full efficiency" | 22:48 |
| * fluffypony already has one | 22:48 | |
| fluffypony | :-P | 22:48 |
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