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| --- Day changed Sun Mar 22 2015 | ||
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| Anduck | about the k-value thing we talked about earlier. could it be less fragile if the k-value deriving included block height or something? a bit like gauth | 09:20 |
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| sipa | using k = hash(msg + privkey) should be perfrctly safe, unless the hash function is (very) broken | 09:27 |
| sipa | and is standardized in rfc 6979 | 09:27 |
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| gmaxwell | sipa: you're missing context. | 09:30 |
| sipa | ok | 09:30 |
| sipa | ignore me, in that case | 09:30 |
| gmaxwell | :) | 09:30 |
| gmaxwell | Anduck: no that cannot work. No amount of non-secret inputs can reduce the brittleness. | 09:32 |
| gmaxwell | Anduck: You are ignoring the other point that I made; that having a one show signature does not actually do much useful; which doesn't go away even if the brittleness concerns were solved. | 09:33 |
| gmaxwell | sipa: Anduck made some suggestion which basically reduces to "why not use a single show signature to deal with double spending" | 09:33 |
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| Anduck | can you elaborate this a little? gmaxwell| In terms of discouraging double spending the attacker will just arrange things so that the loss of the private key is no big deal. (e.g. by ripping off lots of people at once). | 09:39 |
| Anduck | wouldn't the miner then be able to spend the coins anyway so trying double spending will always lose the coins to miner of the next block | 09:41 |
| gmaxwell | Anduck: no, because the miner themselves can be the attacker, and because the second spend need not be widely distributed. The reciever is still totally screwed, so long as the attacker still got their good they're at least just as well off as if they hadn't double spent. Also, they can use the same coins to concurrently double spend against many parties. | 09:45 |
| gmaxwell | E.g. they take 1 BTC, spend it 15 times, miner takes the coins, they get 4 BTC worth of goods from the three successful double spends. | 09:46 |
| Anduck | ok. thanks | 09:47 |
| gmaxwell | So the improvement is mitigated by (1) concurrent theft, (2) miner theft, (3) if the success rate is high, it still doesn't hurt to try and just hope that the winning miner didn't hera both. So this bounds the benefits pretty substantially; and then on the downsides you have the extreme fragility where you can't reissue a stuck spend, or you're screwed if someone accidentally sends twice to the | 09:47 |
| gmaxwell | same address. :) | 09:47 |
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| fluffypony | gribble: seen op_mul ? | 14:52 |
| fluffypony | that's not it | 14:52 |
| fluffypony | !seen op_mul | 14:52 |
| gribble | op_mul was last seen in #bitcoin-wizards 5 weeks, 1 day, 13 hours, 54 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <op_mul> you can't beat the one that's in obfsucated javascript though. | 14:52 |
| fluffypony | O.o | 14:52 |
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| maaku | op_mul has been disabled | 15:15 |
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| fluffypony | maaku: lol | 15:19 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Mar 23 00:00:30 2015 | ||
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