2015-03-22.log

--- Log opened Sun Mar 22 00:00:07 2015
--- Day changed Sun Mar 22 2015
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Anduckabout the k-value thing we talked about earlier. could it be less fragile if the k-value deriving included block height or something? a bit like gauth09:20
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sipausing k = hash(msg + privkey) should be perfrctly safe, unless the hash function is (very) broken09:27
sipaand is standardized in rfc 697909:27
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gmaxwellsipa: you're missing context.09:30
sipaok09:30
sipaignore me, in that case09:30
gmaxwell:)09:30
gmaxwellAnduck: no that cannot work. No amount of non-secret inputs can reduce the brittleness.09:32
gmaxwellAnduck: You are ignoring the other point that I made; that having a one show signature does not actually do much useful; which doesn't go away even if the brittleness concerns were solved.09:33
gmaxwellsipa: Anduck made some suggestion which basically reduces to "why not use a single show signature to deal with double spending"09:33
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Anduckcan you elaborate this a little?  gmaxwell| In terms of discouraging double spending the attacker will just arrange things so that the loss of the private key is no big deal. (e.g. by ripping off lots of people at once).09:39
Anduckwouldn't the miner then be able to spend the coins anyway so trying double spending will always lose the coins to miner of the next block09:41
gmaxwellAnduck: no, because the miner themselves can be the attacker, and because the second spend need not be widely distributed. The reciever is still totally screwed, so long as the attacker still got their good they're at least just as well off as if they hadn't double spent.  Also, they can use the same coins to concurrently double spend against many parties.09:45
gmaxwellE.g. they take 1 BTC, spend it 15 times, miner takes the coins, they get 4 BTC worth of goods from the three successful double spends.09:46
Anduckok. thanks09:47
gmaxwellSo the improvement is mitigated by (1) concurrent theft, (2) miner theft, (3) if the success rate is high, it still doesn't hurt to try and just hope that the winning miner didn't hera both.  So this bounds the benefits pretty substantially;  and then on the downsides you have the extreme fragility where you can't reissue a stuck spend, or you're screwed if someone accidentally sends twice to the09:47
gmaxwell same address. :)09:47
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fluffyponygribble: seen op_mul ?14:52
fluffyponythat's not it14:52
fluffypony!seen op_mul14:52
gribbleop_mul was last seen in #bitcoin-wizards 5 weeks, 1 day, 13 hours, 54 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <op_mul> you can't beat the one that's in obfsucated javascript though.14:52
fluffyponyO.o14:52
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maakuop_mul has been disabled15:15
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fluffyponymaaku: lol15:19
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