2015-03-24.log

--- Log opened Tue Mar 24 00:00:31 2015
-!- spinza [~spin@197.89.19.81] has quit [Excess Flood]00:04
-!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]00:05
-!- face_ [~face@mail.hmel.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards00:05
-!- hktud0 [~ncidsk@unaffiliated/fluffybunny] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]00:06
-!- x98gvyn [~vfbtgn@5-12-202-53.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]00:08
-!- hktud0 [wq@unaffiliated/fluffybunny] has joined #bitcoin-wizards00:08
-!- spinza [~spin@197.89.19.81] has joined #bitcoin-wizards00:09
-!- satwo [~satwo@2602:306:378a:4860:b5f4:6e85:d92:21e5] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]00:16
-!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]00:17
-!- phiche [~Adium@193.89.189.140] has joined #bitcoin-wizards00:32
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]00:32
-!- RoboTedd_ [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards00:33
-!- face [~face@mail.hmel.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving]00:36
-!- face_ is now known as face00:37
-!- hearn [~mike@84-75-198-85.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #bitcoin-wizards01:00
-!- andy-logbot [~bitcoin--@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]01:04
-!- andy-logbot [~bitcoin--@wpsoftware.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards01:05
* andy-logbot is logging01:05
-!- orik [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards01:13
-!- orik [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]01:21
-!- wallet42 [~wallet42@ppp005054006011.access.hol.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards01:24
-!- hearn [~mike@84-75-198-85.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]01:33
-!- hashtag [~hashtag@87.97.54.184.pool.invitel.hu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards01:44
-!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards01:46
-!- Mably [56401ec3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.64.30.195] has joined #bitcoin-wizards01:54
-!- lmacken [~lewk@fedora/lmacken] has quit [Ping timeout: 254 seconds]01:59
-!- CoinMuncher [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards02:03
-!- TonyClif_ [~TonyClift@gateway-nat.fmrib.ox.ac.uk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards02:05
-!- c0rw|sleep is now known as c0rw1n02:05
-!- waxwing__ [waxwing@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-zbhlcxdysdyaishs] has joined #bitcoin-wizards02:08
-!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has quit [Disconnected by services]02:08
-!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]02:08
-!- waxwing__ is now known as waxwing02:08
-!- p15 [~p15@114.248.208.140] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]02:15
-!- phiche [~Adium@193.89.189.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]02:18
-!- rubensayshi [~ruben@91.206.81.13] has joined #bitcoin-wizards02:19
-!- p15 [~p15@182.50.108.32] has joined #bitcoin-wizards02:22
-!- TonyClif_ [~TonyClift@gateway-nat.fmrib.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]02:27
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards02:28
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]02:29
-!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-lfwbdihqgwciomix] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]02:31
-!- RoboTedd_ [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]02:31
-!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-dmmlpwpsifdnaxav] has joined #bitcoin-wizards02:33
-!- wallet42 [~wallet42@ppp005054006011.access.hol.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]02:39
-!- phiche [~Adium@193.89.189.140] has joined #bitcoin-wizards02:43
-!- berndj [~berndj@197.242.93.82] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]02:46
-!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:01
-!- terpo [~terpo@81-64-36-59.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:02
-!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@gateway-nat.fmrib.ox.ac.uk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:08
-!- go1111111 [~go1111111@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/go1111111] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]03:12
-!- p15x [~p15x@124.64.102.27] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]03:15
-!- wallet42 [~wallet42@ppp005054006011.access.hol.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:18
-!- p15x [~p15x@124.64.102.27] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:19
-!- phiche [~Adium@193.89.189.140] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]03:22
-!- p15x [~p15x@124.64.102.27] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]03:25
-!- p15x [~p15x@124.64.102.27] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:26
-!- go1111111 [~go1111111@162.244.138.37] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:27
-!- phiche [~Adium@193.89.189.140] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:28
-!- phiche [~Adium@193.89.189.140] has quit [Client Quit]03:32
-!- phiche [~Adium@193.89.189.140] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:32
-!- phiche [~Adium@193.89.189.140] has quit [Client Quit]03:36
-!- phiche [~Adium@193.89.189.140] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:37
-!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:38
-!- davispuh [~quassel@212.93.97.67] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:56
poppingtonicHi, are there any references to proof-of-strength algorithms on bitcoin.ninja? I've seen the term used in descriptions of some alts, but can't find any documentation on the Internets.03:58
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards03:59
justanotheruserpoppingtonic: what is proof-of-strength04:03
* fluffypony suspects we're getting rickrolled04:03
sipai suppose it's also called "law of the jungle"04:04
sipato win a block, you just kill the operator of other miner pools04:04
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]04:04
-!- Dr-G2 [~Dr-G@x4d08a369.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]04:05
poppingtonicWhen I searched DDG for the term, I found this link: http://digitalmoneytimes.com/crypto-news/a-closer-look-at-guerillacoins-proof-of-strength-feature/04:05
fluffypony"It’s a more graphical representation of your staking weight"04:05
fluffyponyso lipstick on a pig04:06
poppingtonicWhich says that it's a measure of total staking weight your node possesses. I don't understand that.04:06
fluffyponypoppingtonic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-stake and https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake04:06
poppingtonicso this is related to proof-of-stake?04:07
fluffyponyyes04:07
fluffyponyit's literally just a GUI progress bar representing your stake weight04:07
justanotheruserlol04:07
fluffyponythat's why I said, lipstick on a pig04:07
justanotheruserfluffypony: but if it's in the GUI it must be real.04:09
fluffypony"How Can GUI Be Real If Our Eyes Aren't Real" - Jaden Smith, 201504:09
poppingtoniclol, thanks fluffypony04:10
justanotheruserSame case with darkcoin, they have video evidence of their client saying 6 confirmations just seconds after the transaction is broadcast, thus proving instant conf is real04:10
fluffyponybut THREE MasterNodes voted for it, so therefore!04:11
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has joined #bitcoin-wizards04:11
-!- Dr-G2 [~Dr-G@x4d08a369.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards04:11
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has quit [Disconnected by services]04:11
* fluffypony sighs 04:11
justanotheruserfluffypony: seriously, I was arguing that it wasn't secure and they cited this video as proof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBjUPj-TmFE&t=19804:14
fluffyponyjustanotheruser: they don't respond well to criticism04:15
justanotherusermeh, I don't want to say that people overestimating their understanding of computer security deserve to be scammed by darkcoin...04:16
-!- Dr-G2 is now known as Dr-G04:17
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@x4d08a369.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Changing host]04:17
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has joined #bitcoin-wizards04:17
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards04:18
fluffyponythe whole Darkcoin situation over the last couple of days (I posted a breakdown of their threat model on Reddit and got insulted six ways from Sunday) is deeply reminiscent of the gmaxwell vs. Ripple/Stellar thing04:19
fluffyponyI even quoted him on it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg10864553#msg1086455304:19
justanotheruserIt's much easier to understand for the layman that you are working on a directly competing altcoin than that there are fundamental flaws in darkconi04:20
fluffyponyyep, and thus that much easier to deflect the criticism04:21
justanotheruserBreak it or shut it about our technology.... That is it that is all. Like I said I'm putting money where my mouth is... You should do the same. Break it... Or beat it... And this is coming from a major holder of your coin too...me.04:23
justanotherusershame on you for telling people about a flaw in their money rather than stealing their money04:24
fluffyponyhah hah04:24
fluffyponyone day I'll give a talk on "the burden of proof in cryptographic systems" and "how NOT to design an antifragile system", I'll have plenty of material to refer to04:25
-!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]04:32
-!- p15x [~p15x@124.64.102.27] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]04:32
-!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined #bitcoin-wizards04:32
-!- p15x [~p15x@124.64.102.27] has joined #bitcoin-wizards04:33
-!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards04:34
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]04:45
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards04:54
-!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards04:58
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:00
-!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:02
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]05:05
-!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]05:14
-!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:15
-!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]05:16
-!- sipa [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] has quit [Quit: leaving]05:16
-!- waxwing [waxwing@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-zbhlcxdysdyaishs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]05:18
-!- p15x [~p15x@124.64.102.27] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]05:18
-!- p15x [~p15x@124.64.102.27] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:19
-!- sipa1024 [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:22
-!- sipa1024 [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] has quit [Client Quit]05:23
-!- sipa1024 [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:23
-!- sipa1024 [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] has quit [Client Quit]05:24
-!- sipa [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:24
* Adlai upvoted fluffypony re: darkcoin but felt like the kid patching up the flood dams with his finger05:29
fluffyponylol05:29
fluffyponynever mind, I'll create my own cult...with blackjack and hookers!05:29
-!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:30
* Adlai prefers the cult with skipjack and wizards05:31
fluffyponylol05:32
-!- shesek [~shesek@77.127.158.156] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:33
-!- instagibbs [32f65962@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.246.89.98] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:36
instagibbsgood post fluffypony. If someone's not going to understand that burden of proof argument, they're a lost cause and won't be swayed by obviously DDoS vulnerabilities because "prove it ivory tower crypto-faggot"05:47
fluffyponylol exactly05:51
-!- CoinMuncher [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]05:51
-!- bsm117532 [~bsm117532@static-108-21-236-13.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]05:52
kanzureyou forgot to use "bitcoin maximalist" in that quote05:52
fluffypony"Bitcoin purist"05:52
-!- CoinMuncher [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:52
instagibbsProof of No One Gives a Shit05:54
instagibbsseriously though I think a blog post like that would be nice.05:54
sipaponogas!05:55
sipait even sounds nice05:55
fluffyponyfor April 1st someone should announce that Bitcoin is going to be adding MasterNodes05:55
-!- instagibbs [32f65962@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.246.89.98] has quit [Quit: Page closed]05:55
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]05:56
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@x4d08a369.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:56
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@x4d08a369.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Changing host]05:56
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has joined #bitcoin-wizards05:56
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards06:01
-!- bit2017 [~linker@115.79.43.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]06:01
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]06:06
-!- prodatalab_ [~prodatala@2600:1006:b10a:2e44:c034:edb6:86cd:a6ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]06:14
-!- stonecoldpat [~Paddy@janus-nat-128-240-225-56.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards06:17
bramcOf course actual breaks are met with death threats06:17
-!- prodatalab [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:864:44:84de:b2f8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards06:18
bramcfluffypony, How did darkcoin manage to mine 8 million in its first day when it's supposed to mine 2800 per week? If bitcoin were released with a horribly adjusted proof of work factor, it would hit the factor of 4 limit a bunch of times quickly, so if were off by a billion it would give out 15 extra rewards before stabilizing.06:21
fluffyponybramc: broken emissions curve formulae that doesn't match any of the 3 they've published in their various whitepapers06:22
fluffyponycoupled with a broken difficulty retarget06:22
justanotheruseryeah, darkcoin should have done what bytecoin did and forged timestamps06:22
fluffyponyhah hah justanotheruser06:22
stonecoldpatdo people take darkcoin seriously? i dont know much about it, i just assumed by the name most people wouldnt bother with it06:25
-!- StephenM347 [~stephenm3@static-64-223-246-218.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards06:25
bramcRewards formulas seem like a strange thing to mess with. The one in bitcoin is brainless and works fine.06:28
tromp except for a newly launched coin that is stupid enough to give max rewards from block 006:28
fluffyponyand have a difficulty so low that you mine a block every 26 seconds for the first 32 hours (instead of their targetted 2.5 minute block time)06:30
trompit worked for bitcoin because there were so few miners that the difficulty didnt need much adjustment06:31
fluffyponyyep06:32
fluffyponyhttp://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zufu1/a_great_podcast_by_lets_talk_bitcoin_discussing/cpn7fgn06:32
adam3usbramc: comment from an economist who advises govts was that it basically doesnt matter so long as its simple and predictable.06:32
gavinandresenBack before the altcoin explosion I’d get emails asking how I generated the testnet genesis block. My answer was “if you can’t figure that out yourself, you shouldn’t be messing with creating a coin”06:32
fluffypony"Blocks 1 to 1152 had a 500 DRK reward. Blocks 1153 to 1728 had a 277 DRK reward. Then blocks 1729 to 3456 again had a 500 DRK reward. 3457 to 4032 drop to a 277 DRK reward, only to have blocks 4033 to 4501 have a 500 DRK reward. As you correctly point out it then goes to 56 DRK from block 4502 (although bizarrely decreases to 21 DRK up till block 5466, when it increases to 122 DRK)."06:32
adam3uswhich i think is probably true… people are actually capable of adjusting for NPV06:33
fluffypony"The actual frightening thing is to look at the time stamp on block 1 (the first block after the genesis block), which was mined on 2014-01-19 at 03:54:41. By the time we get to block 4501 a total of 1 993 604 DRK had been mined, but that block was mined on 2014-01-20 at 12:46:51, a mere 32 hours (118 330 seconds) later. That's an average of a block every 26.29 seconds."06:33
gavinandresenThen somebody published a “how to generate a genesis block” article and that seemed to start the altcoin explosion....06:33
sipawe need coingen again06:33
sipato remove the elitarism and allow any clueless person to innovate06:33
fluffyponysipa: if we make it work with the top few forks that'd be extra special06:34
-!- coiner [~linker@42.116.153.229] has joined #bitcoin-wizards06:36
fluffyponystonecoldpat: unfortunately they do - there are some people who appear to have a reasonable level of intelligence that gush praise on how "innovative" it is06:36
-!- coiner [~linker@42.116.153.229] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]06:37
-!- coiner [~linker@42.116.153.229] has joined #bitcoin-wizards06:38
bramcfluffypony, If their goal is 2.5 minutes (150 seconds) and they were doing 26 seconds, that's only a factor of 606:38
-!- coiner [~linker@42.116.153.229] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]06:38
bramcThat reward schedule makes no goddamn sense of course. It looks like somebody trying to mess with you.06:39
-!- coiner [~linker@42.116.153.229] has joined #bitcoin-wizards06:39
fluffyponywell their block reward is at least an excellent source of entropy06:39
fluffypony:-P06:39
-!- coiner [~linker@42.116.153.229] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]06:40
bramchttp://dilbert.com/strip/2001-10-2506:41
-!- coiner [~linker@42.116.153.229] has joined #bitcoin-wizards06:41
fluffyponyhah hah06:41
-!- coiner [~linker@42.116.153.229] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]06:42
-!- coiner [~linker@42.116.153.229] has joined #bitcoin-wizards06:43
stonecoldpatfrom what im reading, its just nodes that can be set up by anyone (masternodes) to do coinjoin06:49
fluffyponywell you have to put 1000 DRK up to run a MasterNode06:49
fluffyponyand then you get paid06:49
-!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]06:50
stonecoldpatyeah, which is good for the rich who can invest their money to do something that makes them profit, but you must stil need to be careful how you spend your outputs? (to make sure the outputs are not linked with which mixnet you used)?06:52
fluffyponywell the idea is that it "premixes" your coins06:52
fluffyponyand then you can safely spend them on illegal stuffs, as long as you mix regularly06:53
fluffypony(I use the term "safely" only in the loosest possible sense)06:53
-!- dabura667 [uid43070@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vitbyfyxgxordure] has joined #bitcoin-wizards06:56
-!- instagibbs [32f65962@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.246.89.98] has joined #bitcoin-wizards06:57
stonecoldpatits spending them that i find difficult to believe they can maintain the privacy, if you spend them in certain ways then that may leak your links of the coins. (or at least increase some probability that they belong to you)06:57
stonecoldpatso i put 1.5 drk in the mixnet, its mixed a few times, then i spend the 1.5 drk all at once (using each fixed denomination output from the mixnet), then it is pretty clear who owned the coins06:58
instagibbsit's really important to note that it's essentially running a GreenAddress-style notary for instant transactions, and for trusted mixing. It's just jammed into the consensus protocol, and "randomized" for obfuscation.06:58
-!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]06:59
instagibbsPros: You get a larger anonymity set initially. Cons: It's almost surely broken and is an existential risk.06:59
instagibbs(Of course even a modest CoinShuffle network on Bitcoin would be larger than all Darkcoin transactions combined)07:01
bramcI wonder how many 'decentralized' proof of stake systems are in practice run by a single counterparty. That should in principle be a reasonably stable setup.07:01
fluffyponymost of them, if they use PoS "checkpointing"07:01
instagibbsif you believe in stake grinding... all I suppose :)07:01
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards07:02
bramcIf somebody completely controls the system there's no need for hamburger making07:03
bramcAnd they have reason to try to keep the price reasonably stable07:03
instagibbsbut it is just enough Decentralization Theater that it avoids, for now, the SEC07:03
bramcSo you'd expect that most cow-based systems would quickly get taken over by a single player who then pretends like they don't own it and it's functioning well on its own07:04
sipacow? copy on write?07:05
sipalike a blockchain that forks on every spend :p07:05
fluffyponyinstagibbs: although I'm fairly certain FinCEN will treat MasterNodes as money transmitters ;)07:05
bramccow = proof of steak07:06
instagibbsfluffypony: Not sure about that personally. I kind of hope not due to the closeness to GA.it and regular old Mixing. I guess they're slightly closer due to them getting a cut of block subsidy?07:06
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]07:06
sipabramc: ha07:06
bramcThat's an interesting point. If you put up DRK to participate you can't claim to be part of a decentralized system07:06
instagibbsSuper Secure Corned Beef Hashing07:06
bramcIn fact cow might completely run chicken of the sec in general07:07
instagibbsyou're a notary basically. And a trusted mixer. That's really it.07:07
fluffyponyinstagibbs: yes - they're providing this peripheral service and getting paid for it, so I don't think they'd qualify for the exception that applies to miners07:07
bramcchicken = a fowl07:07
sipabramc: seems like you're running afowl07:07
bramcWhat is the legal theory behind miners not being service providers, at least for transactions?07:08
-!- satwo [~satwo@2602:306:378a:4860:b5f4:6e85:d92:21e5] has joined #bitcoin-wizards07:08
instagibbsregulators tend to work based on function, so the argument would be that functionally all they do is order transactions, giving them, at least individually, not a ton of power.07:10
instagibbs(hand waving here)07:11
bramcAh, I see, on the argument that the person who made the order created it and it will be fulfilled sooner or later anyway07:11
instagibbsAnd Bitcoin today largely works like that, yes. So they seem happy enough with that.07:11
bramcYeah cow seems to have potential problems with that. Masternodes are pretty unambiguously in the wrong.07:13
* fluffypony is definitely not telling his vegan wife about this conversation07:13
-!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]07:14
instagibbsIt's easy to argue that cow, as a consensus mechanism for blockchains, doesn't pass that test either. "Phone a friend" will functionally devolve into "query this bank for true chain". Don't think regulators will like that if/when that becomes necessary. Centralized checkpoints are even clearer.07:15
-!- cluckj [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]07:15
-!- ryanxcharles [~ryan@2601:9:4680:dd0:c0:3bd4:149a:5ea] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]07:17
instagibbsand if no checkpoints/phoning, original stakeholders are central party, obviously.07:17
justanotheruserinstagibbs: and you can phone a friend for the correct rules of the bitcoin blockchain07:18
kanzurethis is why the rules of bitcoin should be derived from the name of the protocol, so that everyone can be sure they are using the right rules.07:19
justanotheruserthe difference being that you can calculate that a ton of money was spent calculating the PoW07:19
instagibbsjustanotheruser: Yes, of course. It's an argument of degrees. My point is the reasoning of why miners aren't considered as money transmitters will fail.07:19
instagibbsmay* fail07:20
bramcI had an interesting thought about what the distribution of amount of time to mint a block should ideally be. There are two conflicting requirements: First, that whoever has fever resources should have a minimal chance of overtaking, and second, that it should be as spread out as possible to come to consensus faster07:20
gmaxwellkanzure: yea, well, or the name should be the hash of the rules. :P07:20
instagibbsConsensus rule changes are much hairier of course, since people will trust a small subset of people. I'm not sure regulators have totally figured that out yet.07:20
kanzureer, right, i would also be okay with that07:20
kanzuregmaxwell: i would also be interested in coming up with proxies for that, or replacements for things like "well we can't have the name be the hash of the rules, but we could do <x> instead that offers many of the same properties"07:21
kanzuregmaxwell: like perhaps a qr code (yes i know qr codes are terrible)07:21
bramcBut there's a limit on how well the first requirement can be met anyway, because a counterparty with more than half the resources can win anyway, so it turns out you ideally want the time to make a block to be evenly spread out from n to 2n07:21
justanotheruserOr we could just say that the best blockchain is probably the one that has had the most money spent on it07:22
kanzureusing the hash of the rules as a name is advantageous because you can more easily communicate to others the set of rules that you are talking about when you say "bitcoin". but surely there are other ways to do this without hash-based names?07:23
bramcjustanotheruser, Yes, go with the block chain with greater transaction volume. That could never go wrong.07:23
kanzurebramc: that could easily go wrong07:23
justanotheruserbramc: that sonuds like a terrible idea07:23
bramckanzure, that was sarcasm07:23
instagibbsthatsthejoke.jpg07:23
fluffyponythat was sarcasm, no?07:23
fluffyponylol07:23
fluffyponyneeds more /s at the end07:24
instagibbsjustanotheruser: I mean that's the whole idea of embedded consensus. If people want to waste time on sticking in transactions you don't recognise as valid, take the spent energy and use it to further secure your version. No SPV of course.07:24
bramcGranted it can be hard to tell sarcasm when you look at darkcoin's rewards schedule, which looks like a joke07:24
justanotheruserI guess what I said was ambiguous, by money spent I mean PoW done07:24
justanotherusernot transaction volume07:24
bramcYes, PoW is the right measure, very subtly different from blocks mined and transaction volume07:25
justanotheruserAnd at that point you're somewhere between SPV and "true" full node security07:27
-!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards07:28
bramcNobody ever seems interested in my comments on collaborative mining formulas. At least now I have a coherent goal in my next round of messing with it, which will happen after my board meeting today.07:28
stonecoldpatfluffypony: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=978447.0 this is what i ment about spending outputs with drk07:28
instagibbsbramc: I think it's general fatigue on "anti-pool" algorithms. I'll read any writeup you make fwiw.07:29
fluffyponystonecoldpat: unfortunately he never followed up with a PoC or anything like that, so the Darkcoiners decided that thread was rubbish07:30
-!- afk11 [~thomas@89.100.72.184] has joined #bitcoin-wizards07:30
-!- lmatteis [uid3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xpnvfisaatnxpulu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards07:30
bramcfluffypony, What's a PoC?07:31
stonecoldpatbramc: im guessing proof of construction07:31
fluffyponyProof of Concept07:31
bramcinstagibbs, I'll certainly do a writeup when it's ready, it's been a bit of a moving target, and I of course babble on here about the most speculative parts, which probably doesn't help understanding.07:31
instagibbsyeah not too helpful tbh. You guys that have already met are chatting a few squares ahead.07:32
stonecoldpatthats quite annoying, if they sit back and think about it, then its just an obvious problem with any mixing07:33
instagibbsstonecoldpat: you need same-sized outputs07:33
instagibbsread the coinshuffle paper, it's the assumed way of doing it07:33
stonecoldpatinstagibbs: they are same-sized, the problem is that I spend 5/20 of the outputs, so its easy to link them07:34
stonecoldpatinstagibbs: yeah ive read it, its a good paper, but it doesnt solve spending the coins, just removes the need for a trusted third party to shuffle the outputs of a transaction07:34
instagibbsyeah UTXO management is a headache07:34
-!- getplank [~getplank@65.88.88.176] has joined #bitcoin-wizards07:35
stonecoldpatinstagibbs: exactly, i think its an inherint problem with bitcoin or anything directly derived of it (like darkcoin)07:35
instagibbsEven that said, simply getting to that point would give plausible deniability for many things.07:35
bramcThe monero/zerocoin approach with serial numbers seems to be a much more solid way of providing anonymity07:36
instagibbsIt's a modular improvement that will only help even more as we solve the other issues.07:36
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]07:36
bramcShort of that I don't see much utility in providing mixing directly in the protocol07:37
-!- droark [~droark@209-6-53-207.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards07:40
gmaxwellbramc: It is.  That other stuff was initially "hey this coinjoin stuff is great, we put it in an altcoin!" to which my result was "hey, idiots, the whole point of coinjoin was that it already worked in bitcoin. If you're talking about something incompatible there are much better approaches" ... and they've since gone off to do other things, but uh.. seemingly without a lot of thought in advance.07:40
gmaxwell:)07:40
-!- skittylx [skittylx@cpe-75-187-202-51.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards07:43
-!- skittylx [skittylx@cpe-75-187-202-51.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host]07:43
-!- skittylx [skittylx@unaffiliated/skittylx] has joined #bitcoin-wizards07:43
-!- lmacken [~lewk@starfighter.csh.rit.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards07:45
-!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards07:47
fluffyponygmaxwell: but they're solving all of Bitcoin's problems! anonymity! instant transactions! visa-scale network! sporks!07:49
fluffyponyand it's all powered by Human Greed™07:50
instagibbsstonecoldpat: I think active+passive mixing will be crucial. Just offer up outputs to people who want transactions now. Sort of like JoinMarket I guess. Only mix outputs together to get larger outputs, etc.07:51
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards08:02
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards08:03
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]08:07
-!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]08:08
-!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@91.176.85.209] has quit []08:13
-!- skittylx [skittylx@unaffiliated/skittylx] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]08:15
-!- drawingthesun [~drawingth@58-7-165-41.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards08:16
-!- instagibbs [32f65962@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.246.89.98] has quit [Quit: Page closed]08:17
-!- drawingthesun [~drawingth@58-7-165-41.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]08:17
-!- drawingthesun [~drawingth@58-7-165-41.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards08:18
-!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@91.176.85.209] has joined #bitcoin-wizards08:32
-!- stonecoldpat [~Paddy@janus-nat-128-240-225-56.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]08:34
-!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]08:36
-!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards08:42
-!- jtimon [~quassel@80.28.51.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards08:42
-!- drawingthesun [~drawingth@58-7-165-41.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving]08:44
-!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f1171b4.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards08:48
-!- Crowley2k [~Crowley2k@93.113.62.93] has joined #bitcoin-wizards08:54
-!- JustAnotherVogon [~Somebody@ip72-204-184-233.no.no.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]08:55
-!- AnotherVogon [~Somebody@ip72-204-184-233.no.no.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]08:55
-!- ryanxcharles [~ryan@64.124.157.148] has joined #bitcoin-wizards08:57
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:03
-!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:07
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]09:08
-!- berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:12
-!- jtimon [~quassel@80.28.51.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]09:15
-!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@gateway-nat.fmrib.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]09:20
-!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:22
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]09:23
-!- poppingtonic [brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:25
-!- DrGrid [b2c5e3bb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.178.197.227.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:26
-!- jtimon [~quassel@80.28.51.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:31
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:31
-!- warptangent [~warptange@unaffiliated/warptangent] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]09:35
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]09:40
GAitsquid restart. expected result, squid restarts. Actual result, squid deletes all files from disk [UNRELEASED package] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=120285809:44
-!- sipa [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]09:44
-!- warptangent [~warptange@unaffiliated/warptangent] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:46
phichethat's the most totally awesome bug I've seen in a while!09:46
-!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:52
-!- sipa [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:57
-!- sipa [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] has quit [Client Quit]09:57
-!- sipa [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] has joined #bitcoin-wizards09:57
-!- poppingtonic [brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]10:01
-!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]10:04
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards10:04
-!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]10:04
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards10:05
-!- xenog [~xenog@2601:9:3400:1500:c001:26e:ff9:5a53] has joined #bitcoin-wizards10:07
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]10:08
-!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]10:11
-!- Mably [56401ec3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.64.30.195] has quit [Quit: Page closed]10:13
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]10:15
kanzurehttp://velvetpulse.com/2012/11/27/scribe-the-deterministic-transparent-record-replay-engine/10:19
kanzure"replay of a recorded execution can transition to live execution at any point." where is your wizard magic god now?10:19
-!- xerox [~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox] has quit [Quit: leaving]10:21
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]10:21
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards10:22
-!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]10:27
-!- justanotheruser is now known as Il|[|l]|10:28
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards10:29
-!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards10:31
-!- terpo [~terpo@81-64-36-59.rev.numericable.fr] has quit []10:33
-!- hashtag_ [~hashtag@87.97.95.128.pool.invitel.hu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards10:34
-!- Il|[|l]| is now known as [|]]10:35
-!- hashtag [~hashtag@87.97.54.184.pool.invitel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]10:37
-!- [|]] is now known as justanotheruser10:38
ajweisshah! an early version of scribe showed up as a project in a class i took a few years ago10:43
ajweissnever knew they got a paper out of it10:44
ajweissi think for a demo they replayed some unix utility under a different locale10:45
-!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .]10:47
-!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards10:48
-!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]10:53
-!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards10:55
-!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards10:55
-!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards10:55
-!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]10:55
-!- xenog [~xenog@2601:9:3400:1500:c001:26e:ff9:5a53] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]11:01
-!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f1171b4.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]11:02
-!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:04
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]11:05
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:05
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]11:10
-!- xenog [~xenog@ec2-54-186-18-161.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:12
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:12
-!- dabura667 [uid43070@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vitbyfyxgxordure] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]11:15
-!- CoinMuncher [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]11:17
-!- orik [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:17
-!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:19
-!- gonedrk [~gonedrk@d40a6497.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:20
-!- Quanttek [~quassel@2a02:8108:73f:f6e4:e23f:49ff:fe47:9364] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:23
-!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]11:23
-!- samson_ [~samson2@180.183.166.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]11:28
-!- getplank [~getplank@65.88.88.176] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]11:28
-!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:29
-!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:41
-!- xenog [~xenog@ec2-54-186-18-161.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]11:46
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:47
-!- phiche [~Adium@193.89.189.140] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]11:47
gmaxwellkanzure: really weird that that page makes no mention of http://rr-project.org/11:49
-!- Crowley2k [~Crowley2k@93.113.62.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]11:49
gmaxwelloh because its old, ah hi.11:50
gmaxweller ah ha11:50
gmaxwellIn any case, if that interests you, you probably want rr.11:50
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]11:51
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]11:51
-!- antgreen [~user@CPE687f74122463-CM84948c2e0610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]11:52
-!- Crowley2k [~Crowley2k@93.113.62.93] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:52
-!- getplank [~getplank@65.88.88.176] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:53
-!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:e45c:bc66:94e5:2307] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:55
-!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]11:56
-!- xenog [~xenog@ec2-54-186-18-161.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:58
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards11:58
-!- rubensayshi [~ruben@91.206.81.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]11:58
-!- samson_ [~samson2@180.183.162.89] has joined #bitcoin-wizards12:02
-!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]12:06
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@2601:9:3483:2400:69d0:cca2:fdc9:ba1b] has joined #bitcoin-wizards12:06
-!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-dmmlpwpsifdnaxav] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]12:10
kanzure"If you accidentally set a breakpoint in the wrong place and miss gathering critical information, your precious intermittent failure isn't lost. Just fix your breakpoint and then tell gdb to run the recording back from the beginning again."12:12
-!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-jwcyntmsituvmfks] has joined #bitcoin-wizards12:12
-!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards12:13
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@2601:9:3483:2400:69d0:cca2:fdc9:ba1b] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]12:14
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@2601:9:3483:2400:69d0:cca2:fdc9:ba1b] has joined #bitcoin-wizards12:14
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]12:17
-!- phiche [~Adium@93-162-117-171-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards12:30
-!- phiche [~Adium@93-162-117-171-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Client Quit]12:31
Luke-Jrit doesn't really work in my experience12:32
Luke-Jrin theory, sure - but in practice, it's so slow …12:32
Adlaiso slow that the heisenbugs get bored?12:33
gmaxwellhm? I've used rr while working on firefox and found it fine.12:33
Luke-Jrit's just the gdb "record" command, right?12:37
-!- satwo [~satwo@2602:306:378a:4860:b5f4:6e85:d92:21e5] has quit [Quit: Leaving]12:37
gmaxwellLuke-Jr: oh no, record is too slow to be useful.12:37
-!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards12:38
gmaxwellrecord is slow because it basically records process state so you can go back... rr gives up that crazyness and instead records _all_ non-determinstic IO of the process. So to go back you can just replay the process from the start and end up in exactly the same state.12:38
Luke-Jroh, I get it. this is just dealing with IO basically12:38
gmaxwellyea, including "inputs" like scheduling decisions for multithreaded programs.12:39
-!- hashtagg_ [~hashtag@87.97.95.128.pool.invitel.hu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards12:39
-!- hashtag_ [~hashtag@87.97.95.128.pool.invitel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]12:41
-!- samson_ [~samson2@180.183.162.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]12:44
-!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]12:45
-!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards12:46
-!- jtimon [~quassel@80.28.51.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]12:49
-!- TonyClif_ [~TonyClift@gateway-nat.fmrib.ox.ac.uk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards12:51
-!- samson_ [~samson2@180.183.87.185] has joined #bitcoin-wizards12:52
-!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]12:53
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]12:57
-!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Quit: Leaving]13:01
-!- p15x [~p15x@124.64.102.27] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]13:08
-!- Crowley2k [~Crowley2k@93.113.62.93] has quit [Quit: Leaving]13:09
-!- p15x [~p15x@124.64.102.27] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:12
-!- TonyClif_ [~TonyClift@gateway-nat.fmrib.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]13:12
-!- orik [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]13:15
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:16
-!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]13:17
-!- DougieBot5000_ [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:17
-!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:18
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:18
-!- phiche [~Adium@93-162-117-171-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:19
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]13:21
-!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]13:21
-!- getplank [~getplank@65.88.88.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]13:28
-!- jtimon [~quassel@125.23.132.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:30
-!- belcher [~belcher-s@5ec1ab1f.skybroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:30
-!- belcher [~belcher-s@5ec1ab1f.skybroadband.com] has quit [Changing host]13:30
-!- belcher [~belcher-s@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:30
-!- wallet42 [~wallet42@ppp005054006011.access.hol.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]13:32
-!- wallet42 [~wallet42@ppp005054006011.access.hol.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:32
-!- prodatalab [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:864:44:84de:b2f8] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]13:34
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]13:35
-!- prodatalab [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:864:44:84de:b2f8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:36
-!- tcrypt [~tylersmit@173.247.206.110] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:36
-!- wallet42 [~wallet42@ppp005054006011.access.hol.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]13:37
-!- prodatalab [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:864:44:84de:b2f8] has quit [Client Quit]13:38
-!- DougieBot5000_ is now known as DougieBot500013:41
-!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-jwcyntmsituvmfks] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]13:42
-!- prodatalab_ [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:b5f2:8b8d:98ac:860c] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:45
-!- dc17523be3 [~unknown@193.138.219.233] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:46
-!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:46
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:47
-!- d1ggy_ [~d1ggy@dslb-178-003-015-176.178.003.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:49
-!- tdryja [~tx@s186.62.229.222.fls.vectant.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:53
-!- d1ggy [~d1ggy@dslb-178-003-015-176.178.003.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]13:53
-!- nuke_ [~nuke@46-149-36.adsl.cyta.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:55
-!- binaryFate [~binaryFat@37.152.12.253] has joined #bitcoin-wizards13:56
-!- davispuh [~quassel@212.93.97.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]14:01
-!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]14:02
-!- hashtagg_ [~hashtag@87.97.95.128.pool.invitel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]14:07
-!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]14:08
-!- waxwing__ [waxwing@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-xtlkbifvllplduxt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:14
-!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has quit [Disconnected by services]14:15
-!- waxwing__ is now known as waxwing14:15
-!- afk11 [~thomas@89.100.72.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]14:18
-!- afk11 [~thomas@89.100.72.184] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:18
-!- hashtag [~hashtag@87.97.95.128.pool.invitel.hu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:23
-!- prodatalab_ [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:b5f2:8b8d:98ac:860c] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]14:24
-!- hashtag [~hashtag@87.97.95.128.pool.invitel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]14:27
-!- prodatalab [~prodatala@147.sub-70-209-53.myvzw.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:29
-!- lmatteis [uid3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xpnvfisaatnxpulu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]14:30
-!- orik [~orik@75.149.169.53] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:34
-!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:35
-!- Quanttek [~quassel@2a02:8108:73f:f6e4:e23f:49ff:fe47:9364] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]14:39
-!- Emcy [~MC@152.27.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:39
-!- Emcy [~MC@152.27.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Changing host]14:39
-!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:39
-!- maraoz_ [~maraoz@181.95.199.33] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:39
-!- orik_ [~orik@166.170.36.83] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:40
-!- orik [~orik@75.149.169.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]14:41
-!- NomosOne [~OneNomos@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/onenomos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:45
-!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]14:47
-!- xerox [~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:47
-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: dardasaba, Fistful_of_Coins, isis, jonasschnelli14:48
-!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:49
-!- Netsplit over, joins: jonasschnelli, isis, dardasaba, Fistful_of_Coins14:49
-!- orik_ [~orik@166.170.36.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]14:53
-!- NomosOne [~OneNomos@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/onenomos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]14:53
-!- orik [~orik@166.170.36.83] has joined #bitcoin-wizards14:56
-!- afk11 [~thomas@89.100.72.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]14:58
-!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has quit [Quit: b_lumenkraft]15:03
-!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards15:04
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@2601:9:3483:2400:69d0:cca2:fdc9:ba1b] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]15:04
-!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards15:05
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@2601:9:3483:2400:69d0:cca2:fdc9:ba1b] has joined #bitcoin-wizards15:05
-!- airbreather [~AirBreath@d149-67-99-43.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]15:12
-!- airbreather [~AirBreath@d149-67-99-43.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards15:13
-!- prodatalab [~prodatala@147.sub-70-209-53.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]15:15
-!- prodatalab [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:b5f2:8b8d:98ac:860c] has joined #bitcoin-wizards15:16
-!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards15:21
-!- dEBRUYNE_ is now known as dEBRUYNE15:25
-!- waxwing [waxwing@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-xtlkbifvllplduxt] has quit [Disconnected by services]15:25
-!- orik [~orik@166.170.36.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]15:25
-!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has joined #bitcoin-wizards15:25
-!- TonyClif_ [~TonyClift@gateway-nat.fmrib.ox.ac.uk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards15:26
-!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]15:29
-!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]15:29
-!- orik [~orik@166.170.36.83] has joined #bitcoin-wizards15:31
-!- orik [~orik@166.170.36.83] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]15:55
-!- maraoz_ [~maraoz@181.95.199.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]15:57
-!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving]15:58
-!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]16:00
-!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]16:02
-!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has joined #bitcoin-wizards16:04
-!- prodatalab [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:b5f2:8b8d:98ac:860c] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]16:08
-!- prodatalab [~prodatala@115.sub-70-209-56.myvzw.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards16:12
-!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]16:19
-!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]16:20
-!- skittylx [skittylx@unaffiliated/skittylx] has joined #bitcoin-wizards16:20
-!- sneak [~sneak@unaffiliated/sneak] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]16:21
-!- sneak [~sneak@unaffiliated/sneak] has joined #bitcoin-wizards16:22
-!- luigi1111w [~luigi1112@unaffiliated/luigi1111] has joined #bitcoin-wizards16:23
-!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]16:32
-!- DoctorBTC [~DoctorBTC@unaffiliated/doctorbtc] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]16:34
-!- DoctorBTC [~DoctorBTC@unaffiliated/doctorbtc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards16:36
-!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards16:37
-!- phiche [~Adium@93-162-117-171-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]16:37
-!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards16:40
-!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]16:40
-!- wallet42 [~wallet42@ppp005054006011.access.hol.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards16:56
-!- ryanxcharles [~ryan@64.124.157.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]17:00
-!- DrGrid [b2c5e3bb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.178.197.227.187] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client]17:07
-!- jtimon [~quassel@125.23.132.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]17:10
-!- terpo [~terpo@81-64-36-59.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards17:11
-!- terpo [~terpo@81-64-36-59.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]17:16
-!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]17:19
-!- TonyClif_ [~TonyClift@gateway-nat.fmrib.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]17:22
-!- binaryFate [~binaryFat@37.152.12.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]17:47
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@2601:9:3483:2400:69d0:cca2:fdc9:ba1b] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]17:48
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]17:55
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards17:55
-!- spinza [~spin@197.89.19.81] has quit [Excess Flood]18:00
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-180-192-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:01
-!- spinza [~spin@197.89.19.81] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:03
-!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]18:06
-!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:11
-!- irc88 [~irc88@204.28.117.162] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:23
-!- d1ggy_ [~d1ggy@dslb-178-003-015-176.178.003.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]18:24
-!- d1ggy_ [~d1ggy@dslb-178-003-127-205.178.003.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:25
-!- kmels [~kmels@186.151.60.184] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:31
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has quit [Disconnected by services]18:34
-!- Dr-G2 [~Dr-G@x4d08de23.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:34
-!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]18:36
-!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:36
-!- prodatalab_ [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:b5f2:8b8d:98ac:860c] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:37
-!- prodatalab [~prodatala@115.sub-70-209-56.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]18:37
-!- pgokeeffe [~pgokeeffe@101.165.93.194] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:40
-!- cluckj [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:40
-!- bsm117532 [~bsm117532@static-108-21-236-13.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:48
-!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .]18:48
-!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:50
-!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards18:57
-!- luigi1111w [~luigi1112@unaffiliated/luigi1111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]19:08
-!- luigi1111w [~luigi1112@static-209-107-228-69.consolidated.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards19:09
-!- luigi1111w is now known as Guest3427719:09
-!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards19:11
-!- blazes816 [~tylersmit@173.247.206.110] has joined #bitcoin-wizards19:27
-!- xenog [~xenog@ec2-54-186-18-161.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]19:28
-!- tcrypt [~tylersmit@173.247.206.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]19:30
-!- blazes816 [~tylersmit@173.247.206.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]19:31
-!- tdryja [~tx@s186.62.229.222.fls.vectant.ne.jp] has left #bitcoin-wizards []19:39
-!- moa [~moa@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards19:39
-!- coiner [~linker@42.116.153.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]19:40
-!- ryanxcharles [~ryan@2601:9:4680:dd0:c0:3bd4:149a:5ea] has joined #bitcoin-wizards19:42
-!- belcher [~belcher-s@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving]19:50
-!- prodatalab_ [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:b5f2:8b8d:98ac:860c] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]19:53
-!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]19:55
-!- skittylx [skittylx@unaffiliated/skittylx] has quit [Quit: feel the bass]19:56
-!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:00
-!- Pan0ram1x [~Pan0ram1x@095-096-084-122.static.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]20:07
-!- wallet42 [~wallet42@ppp005054006011.access.hol.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]20:10
-!- coiner [~linker@115.79.55.177] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:13
-!- Pan0ram1x [~Pan0ram1x@095-096-084-122.static.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:13
-!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving]20:16
-!- Starduster_ [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:26
-!- roasbeef_ [~root@104.131.26.124] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:27
-!- eordano_ [~eordano@162.243.147.96] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:28
-!- eric [~ericp4@unaffiliated/ericp4] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]20:28
-!- roasbeef [~root@104.131.26.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]20:28
-!- eordano [~eordano@162.243.147.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]20:28
-!- jessepollak [~jessepoll@104.131.138.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]20:28
-!- jessepollak_ [~jessepoll@104.131.138.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:28
-!- jessepollak_ is now known as jessepollak20:28
-!- Starduster [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]20:28
-!- sofdg2 [~sofdg2@unaffiliated/sofdg2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:29
-!- prodatalab_ [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:2164:9ece:d150:346e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:31
-!- eric [~ericp4@unaffiliated/ericp4] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:31
-!- otoburb_ [~otoburb@ec2-54-173-213-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:37
-!- otoburb [~otoburb@unaffiliated/otoburb] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]20:37
-!- pigeons [~pigeons@94.242.209.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]20:37
-!- xerox [~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]20:37
-!- xerox [~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:38
-!- pigeons [~pigeons@94.242.209.214] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:39
-!- pigeons is now known as Guest6839020:39
-!- Pan0ram1x_ [~Pan0ram1x@095-096-084-122.static.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:44
-!- Pan0ram1x [~Pan0ram1x@095-096-084-122.static.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]20:49
-!- Pan0ram1x_ is now known as Pan0ram1x20:49
-!- tcrypt [~tylersmit@c-67-169-17-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards20:54
-!- sofdg2 [~sofdg2@unaffiliated/sofdg2] has quit [Quit: Saindo]21:06
-!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]21:10
-!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Quit: made me do it!]21:15
-!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards21:15
-!- xenog [~xenog@ec2-54-186-18-161.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards21:15
-!- terpo [~terpo@81-64-36-59.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards21:17
-!- Dr-G2 [~Dr-G@x4d08de23.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]21:20
-!- terpo [~terpo@81-64-36-59.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]21:22
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@x4d08de23.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards21:23
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@x4d08de23.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Changing host]21:23
-!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has joined #bitcoin-wizards21:23
-!- [7] [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Disconnected by services]21:34
-!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards21:35
-!- bsm117532 [~bsm117532@static-108-21-236-13.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]21:36
-!- whteiso [~whiteiso@pool-96-243-22-180.bflony.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards21:39
-!- xenog [~xenog@ec2-54-186-18-161.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]21:40
-!- c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|sleep21:42
-!- satwo [~satwo@2602:306:378a:4860:fcc0:6a66:8fb9:a489] has joined #bitcoin-wizards21:54
-!- moa [~moa@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]21:56
-!- xenog [~xenog@ec2-54-186-18-161.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards22:00
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-180-192-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]22:10
-!- kmels [~kmels@186.151.60.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]22:12
-!- StephenM347 [~stephenm3@static-64-223-246-218.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit []22:31
-!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards22:34
-!- phiche [~Adium@93-162-117-171-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards22:41
-!- samson_ [~samson2@180.183.87.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]22:47
gmaxwellugh: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/30562s/bitnodes_will_be_releasing_plug_play_bitcoin_node/  ... we removed bitnodes as a dnsseed in bitcoin core because they kept engaging in sketchy behavior, and IMO dishonest. (e.g. we'd ask them to stop connecting at super high frequency to monitor every node in the network, and they said they would.. and a month later they instead had a perpetual22:51
gmaxwell link up to every node in the network, etc. etc.)22:51
kanzurewho is "we"? who made the request22:52
gmaxwellNow they're announcing that they're selling "full node hardware" (an underpowered odroid c1 and some yet to be disclosed software load); ... this really doesn't fill me with excitement.22:52
gmaxwellkanzure: bitcoin core commiters; jeff, myself mostly, pieter.22:52
gmaxwellafter several cycles of the above kind of miscommunication I got tired of repeating it (and worring if they were really up to no good, or if it was just some derpy miscommunication), and just removed them.22:53
gmaxwellSince then they started a "pay people to run full nodes" program thats pretty seriously ill-advised (because the optimal way to pay is just proxy networks, so it breaks our ability to estimate measure actual full node deployment; and doesn't get us anything we were lacking (not like we're running out of sockets)); and now this.22:55
-!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has joined #bitcoin-wizards22:59
satwogmaxwell: their website states "Bitnodes is currently being developed to estimate the size of the Bitcoin network by finding all the reachable nodes in the network." <- doesn't seem like they got the memo.23:00
gmaxwellthe complaint wasn't the spidering, its that they were taking what could have been a couple connections per day of spidering and instead using a lot of reasources (and later staying connected and monitoring transactions).23:02
gmaxwellKinda funny that the reddit crowd was shocked-shocked about chainanalysis or whatever that was but is goo-goo for this, obviously chainanalysis should have just paid everyone 8 cents per month. :-/23:03
satwonot knowing any better, i was under the impression that chainanalysis was the first known company to attempt that... perhaps I should spend more time here and less time over at r/bitcoin ;)23:04
kanzureavoiding reddit is a good strategy in general23:05
-!- phiche [~Adium@93-162-117-171-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]23:05
gmaxwellsatwo: the only differences I'm aware of about chainanalysis is that they also ran a /24 worth of 'nodes' to get more connections from hosts behind nats that are not reachable from the outside world; and that they were explicitly and overtly a business to monitor user's location behavior.23:06
midnightmagickanzure: Except that *not* contributing to signal in a noise-ful environment is to ignore the massive propagation of lies and misconceptions, and we all suffer for it eventually because the only people who can correct them are the people who know better, and the people who know better (or *should* know better) won't grow as a population unless the pre-existing population builds numbers.23:06
gmaxwellInterestingly, they distinguished themselves from BC.i by pointing out at least they'd never just post the IPs they collect; which I'm not sure what I think about that defense.23:07
-!- spinza [~spin@197.89.19.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]23:10
satwogmaxwell: never knew BC.i did that until now. They count almost 3.5 million unique ip addresses. Perhaps useful to encourage node operators to use tor?23:14
-!- ahmed__ [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]23:16
-!- ahmed_ [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:18
-!- ahmed_ [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:18
-!- Guest95162 [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:19
-!- Guest95162 [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:19
-!- spinza [~spin@197.89.19.81] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:19
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:19
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:19
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:20
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:20
satwomidnightmagic: I always pay extra careful attention when I see a comment by a core dev or otherwise "respectable" technical person like peter todd... problem is, even those guys often get quickly accused of being shills for one thing or another, potentially leaving the casual observer in a state of confusion and doubt.23:20
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:20
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:20
-!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:e45c:bc66:94e5:2307] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]23:20
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:21
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:21
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:21
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:21
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:22
kanzureuh, well they should be confused.23:22
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:22
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:22
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:22
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:23
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:23
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:23
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:23
-!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-180-192-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:24
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:24
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:24
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:24
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:24
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:25
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:25
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:25
-!- nuke_ [~nuke@46-149-36.adsl.cyta.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]23:25
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:25
-!- nuke_ [~nuke@46-149-36.adsl.cyta.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:26
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:26
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:26
midnightmagicsatwo: Model a smarter person than an LCD casual observer as the audience and target of comments there, and set the tone light enough that you don't get downvote-dogpiled.23:26
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:27
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:27
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:27
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:27
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:28
-!- ahmed_- [~ahmed_@76.164.237.186] has quit [Excess Flood]23:28
-!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [+o gwillen] by ChanServ23:30
-!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [+b ahmed_-!*@*$##fix_your_connection] by gwillen23:31
-!- xenog [~xenog@ec2-54-186-18-161.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]23:39
-!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]23:40
satwomidnightmagic: Good advice; but I'm hesitant to post much until I have more confidence that I actually know what I'm talking about ;)23:40
satwoWhich is one reason I thought I'd start lurking around these parts.23:40
-!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:e45c:bc66:94e5:2307] has joined #bitcoin-wizards23:50
-!- nubbins` [~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins] has quit [Quit: Quit]23:56
--- Log closed Wed Mar 25 00:00:32 2015

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!