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| M-Chickee | So Mis what do you think of Blythe Masters opening two Bitcoin start ups? The French are not happy. Pierre Jonanovic wrote a book I read some but it's all in French and not yet translated into English. | 05:10 |
|---|---|---|
| M-Chickee | wreaking havoc | 05:11 |
| fluffypony | M-Chickee: better suited to #bitcoin | 05:11 |
| kanzure | http://tabbforum.com/researches/bitcoin-the-miners-dilemma | 05:12 |
| M-Chickee | Okay, _mis come talk to me in Bitcoin | 05:12 |
| kanzure | fluffypony: see pm | 05:12 |
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| M-Chickee | excuse me? See PM? Sorry FluffyPony. | 05:19 |
| fluffypony | M-Chickee: it's unrelated to you, he was sending me a private message declaring his undying love for traditional Italian thin-crust pizza | 05:19 |
| M-Chickee | Oh i see, excuse me let me get in this general bitcoin room and let the wizards preform your magic. I just like to read this thread. Good day. | 05:21 |
| fluffypony | and good day to you too | 05:21 |
| fluffypony | fare thee well, and may the road always be painted with straight lines, and have legible road signs, and also streetlights that work, and maybe no errant pedestrians | 05:22 |
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| M-Chickee | 😊✌🏾️ | 05:26 |
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| rodarmor | Your Group Order entitled "Wednesday Lunch " will close in 30 minutes. You have not yet placed an order as part of the Group Order, so your company asked that you receive this email as a reminder. Click here to place your order: http://www.seamless.com Enjoy your meal! | 07:30 |
| rodarmor | whoops, sorry! | 07:30 |
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| Adlai | "group order" seemed on-topic, but things went downhill from there | 09:25 |
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| waxwing | Adlai: :) .. is the ring sig stuff making sense now? | 09:28 |
| Adlai | no, although i haven't looked at it again since last night. | 09:29 |
| Adlai | the general concept makes perfect sense, the drouble is in the details | 09:30 |
| waxwing | i remember struggling with that paragraph too, but maybe for a different reason | 09:30 |
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| Adlai | my confusion can be generalized as "there must be an i-1 SOMEWHERE, else all the arrows just point at the same node they point from" | 09:32 |
| Adlai | which is starting to smell like the kind of confusion best remedied by reading/lwriting code | 09:32 |
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| waxwing | each 'e' is the hash of the 'K' at the index before it (well, not only that, but includes that). that's why i wasn't totally clear about from reading it at first. | 09:36 |
| waxwing | s/why/wasn't/ | 09:36 |
| Adlai | there's no uppercase 'K', maybe you mean kG?+ | 09:39 |
| waxwing | yeah, K=kG sorry | 09:39 |
| waxwing | it's interesting reading the cryptonote version of the ring sig ... it's a simpler version of the same thing, except they don't use hashes to create causal connections between each node, so seems that's why it needs more data in the sig (all the e-values except one) | 09:40 |
| Adlai | right. so i don't understand why it matters which e you reveal, as long as you make clear 1) the ordering of the s values, and 2) which s value corresponds to the e you revealed, by convention let's call that one s_0 | 09:40 |
| waxwing | plus they have the linkability thing | 09:40 |
| waxwing | Adlai: right, it mustn't matter, eh, otherwise it wouldn't be a good ring sig? | 09:41 |
| Adlai | well gmaxwell said otherwise, making me doubt my understanding | 09:41 |
| waxwing | oh ok. i think i read that, but not sure what he was saying... | 09:42 |
| waxwing | oh, maybe he's talking about the borromean aspect, yes | 09:42 |
| waxwing | because in borromean you have to have several rings joining at one node | 09:42 |
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| * Adlai hasn't gotten that far yet >:( | 09:42 | |
| waxwing | right, you're reading the AOS signature bit. | 09:43 |
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| waxwing | this is exactly how the 'compactifying' of the borr. version works: one hash suffices for all the rings at once, so it has to be e0 that's published. | 09:46 |
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| Adlai | someday when a bitcoin's only price is "10e8 satoshi", there should be an actual monument of borromean rings, so even laypeople can appreciate the weirdness | 09:50 |
| waxwing | :) anway, CCT is the new hotness now ... if i ever get that far :) | 09:50 |
| Adlai | _C_CT? | 09:50 |
| waxwing | https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085436.0 | 09:51 |
| waxwing | gmaxwell's last post in the thread does not fill me with a sense of mathematical adequacy lol | 09:52 |
| Adlai | you could've at least linked https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085436.0;all :) | 09:52 |
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| fluffypony | Adlai: or ;wap2 | 10:03 |
| fluffypony | bester interface evar | 10:03 |
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| waxwing | oh. TIL :) | 10:08 |
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| Luke-Jr | ;wap2 is annoying. I hate how Google appears to prefer it. | 10:13 |
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| amiller- | im still trying to figure out if/why borromean signature is different than what you can get with generic zero knowledge tools | 11:18 |
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| amiller- | i haven't been able to understand the graph with backward time edges and causal loops at all yet Figure 2 | 11:30 |
| waxwing | personally i didn't find the graphs that helpful; it's just that since each node commits (hashes) the previous one, you can only go in one direction, except at a node you hold the privkey for. | 11:31 |
| amiller- | okay so typically in OR proofs, there's a step where you fix a challenge c | 11:38 |
| amiller- | and then you basically have to make up c1 c2 c3 c4 c5 if there are 5 clauses, that all sum to c | 11:38 |
| amiller- | you have to include all 5 of those in the signature | 11:38 |
| waxwing | yes, the AOS saves you from that :) | 11:38 |
| amiller- | the idea is that for the private keys you don't know, you can have to fix c1 c2 c3 c4 to values you forced yourself into in the commitment phase, if you only know the private key for c5 | 11:39 |
| amiller- | so it works based on there being like 4 degrees of freedom but then the 5th is a real challenge | 11:39 |
| amiller- | okay so using this AOS thing saves that | 11:40 |
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| amiller- | i haven't figured out the trick yet - is it also general for any OR statement | 11:40 |
| waxwing | any OR statement in what sense? | 11:40 |
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| waxwing | the trick is just that each node commits to the previous one, which would not allow a complete ring unless you can 'cheat', which you can if you have the private key by moving over to the scalar version of the equation ... choose s in k=s+ex or whatever | 11:42 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jul 16 00:00:12 2015 | ||
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