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| azariah | gmaxwell: not sure being gcc targetable really is a big benefit for a smart contract VM. given the cost of blockchain verification of executions, I doubt many would want to directly port existing programs. | 05:35 |
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| azariah | most use cases of smart contracts require lot's of fluff around the actual contract - GUIs, centralized user handling, etc. offloading only the core consensus critical parts to the smart contract code. for such use cases rewriting a program to a new VM is probably the lesser effort | 05:36 |
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| azariah | the consensus bugs / sec vulns found in the Ethereum VM, both prior to and after it's launch, could be a interesting case study with regards to what is hard to get consensus on in a smart contract VM | 05:46 |
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| azariah | most of their consensus issues where around VM exceptions & when state transitions affected the life cycle of contracts (contract creation, deletion) | 05:48 |
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| jgarzik | azariah, It's not about porting existing programs | 06:00 |
| jgarzik | azariah, it's about having an existing toolchain ecosystem. You can pick your favorite programming language, and have existing debuggers profilers and more to use. | 06:00 |
| jgarzik | The alternative is reinventing all that stuff.. poorly | 06:01 |
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| jgarzik | kanzure, Did the Big Pile O Ideas ever get archived into a single link, however unsorted? | 07:29 |
| kanzure | jgarzik: at the moment there is http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin/bitcoin-selected-bookmarks.2015-09-09.yaml | 07:30 |
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| kanzure | jgarzik: i am having trouble figuring out how to organize the index, struggling with signal/noise theoretical concerns. | 07:30 |
| kanzure | jgarzik: advice appreciated | 07:31 |
| jgarzik | kanzure, I don't see my IRC idea dump :) | 07:32 |
| jgarzik | kanzure, IM chain for example | 07:32 |
| kanzure | i have your dump stored somewhere else | 07:32 |
| jgarzik | gah! Then it's not a single link. :) | 07:32 |
| kanzure | i really do need help figuring out correct format and how to sort signal/noise on this project, otherwise it will just be list of 2000 things and nobody will use it. | 07:32 |
| jgarzik | kanzure, I disagree that organization should be a blocker | 07:33 |
| kanzure | elaborate plz? | 07:34 |
| jgarzik | kanzure, release early, release often. rapidly iterate. | 07:34 |
| jgarzik | kanzure, get everything into a single link that is Ctrl-F searchable | 07:34 |
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| jgarzik | the crowd can help take it from there | 07:34 |
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| kanzure | jgarzik: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin/big-pile.txt | 07:43 |
| kanzure | now show me the crowd's magic. | 07:43 |
| zooko | Could you make it hyperlinkable to subsets? Perhaps by adding an anchor to each line or each section? | 07:45 |
| kanzure | i am not convined that a random scratchpad is a good starting point for this | 07:45 |
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| bsm1175321 | If I throw up a MediaWiki, will some of you start pushing this stuff into it? | 07:51 |
| kanzure | well i can put it on a wiki if that will convince you to contribute.... http://diyhpl.us/wiki/bitcoin/big-pile/ | 07:53 |
| kanzure | also accessible here: https://github.com/kanzure/diyhpluswiki/blob/master/bitcoin/big-pile.mdwn | 07:53 |
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| bsm1175321 | kanzure do you want to wiki-fy this? | 07:54 |
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| kanzure | not at the moment, it would be nice if someone else would | 07:56 |
| bsm1175321 | Your list is overwhelming. | 07:57 |
| kanzure | (.mdwn is markdown, theoretically) | 07:57 |
| kanzure | yes well jgarzik was pushing me for "release early" so there you go | 07:57 |
| bsm1175321 | I almost want to write a script to parse it... | 07:57 |
| kanzure | for the bookmarks you can just use a yaml parser, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin/bitcoin-selected-bookmarks.2015-09-09.yaml | 07:58 |
| kanzure | the yaml format there is used by a bookmarking tool that i'm fond of, https://github.com/davidlazar/jotmuch | 07:59 |
| bsm1175321 | I see | 08:00 |
| kanzure | ((yaml is best analogized as a superset of json)) | 08:01 |
| bsm1175321 | I'm going to sit here and be overwhelmed for a little while longer. But thinking... | 08:02 |
| kanzure | "I disagree that organization should be a blocker" :-) | 08:02 |
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| kanzure | btcdrak: way ahead of you, http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/011158.html | 09:08 |
| btcdrak | LOL | 09:10 |
| btcdrak | kanzure: looks like we pressed send at almost the same time haha | 09:10 |
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| gmaxwell | Does anyone have access to a latest generation amd opteron that they could run the libsecp256k1 benchmarks on? | 14:07 |
| nsh | shame no-one implemented ctcp cpuinfo | 14:08 |
| nsh | (no, sorry; will ask about) | 14:08 |
| gmaxwell | I'm trying to figure out what part yields the greatest _verify per dollar and _verify per part right now. :) | 14:10 |
| gmaxwell | maybe I should make a little test collection script that runs the benchmark and submits its result and cpuinfo someplace. :) | 14:10 |
| nsh | someone available has a ' model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1381 ' | 14:11 |
| nsh | unsure if this is latest generation | 14:11 |
| gmaxwell | Alas, thats pre bulldozer, so pretty different from the most recent arch. I think I have one of roughtly that generation available. | 14:14 |
| nsh | ah, shame | 14:14 |
| nsh | maybe if you write them a nice email... | 14:15 |
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| kanzure | maaku: re: near blocks, weak blocks, etc., i see how share chain is related but not sure about partial blocks. can't find anything. plz show. | 14:19 |
| kanzure | (re: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3m2wpf/bitcoindev_weak_block_thoughts/cvbrmjv ) | 14:20 |
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| maaku | kanzure: interesting. i've seen and used the term myself in conversation, but google results and log greps are confirming your result | 14:26 |
| nsh | well, there was that one timeline where the blockchain became self-aware and nearly destroyed all human civilisation and we had to retrocausally elide all the theory that immanentised the cryptoeschaton | 14:29 |
| nsh | so maybe you're remembering sideways or something | 14:29 |
| maaku | nsh: must be it | 14:32 |
| * maaku remembers to go work on his skynet branch | 14:33 | |
| * nsh nods | 14:33 | |
| nsh | hehe | 14:33 |
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| TD-Linux | gmaxwell, is ECC ram a requirement? if not I think the consumer ones would be even better | 14:38 |
| gmaxwell | I'm interested only in ECC capable parts; but others might not be.. knowing how well a particular microarchitecture does should generally well enough. | 14:39 |
| gmaxwell | I just don't have any idea how well they perform.. the current generation intel atom stuff is much slower than you'd expect. | 14:39 |
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