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| nsh | maaku, because the blockchain is a de-fact timestamping public notary record? | 01:57 |
|---|---|---|
| nsh | *de-facto | 01:57 |
| nsh | with a known and calculable cost of history-editing | 01:58 |
| nsh | well, calculable modulo how much NSA mathematics is classified and beyond academia | 01:58 |
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| prosodyC | That hash question actually makes sense on a larger scale. | 06:12 |
| nsh | hmm? | 06:17 |
| prosodyC | Out of scope for now. | 06:25 |
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| prosodyC | I like clear text, so I've wondered about replacing hashes with basic tables. | 06:27 |
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| jgarzik | cfields, FYI those posixutils Makefile changes should be automate-able. At least 80% fit a precise pattern | 07:46 |
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| maaku | nsh: point was for their application the hash needn't actually occupy bytes on the chain | 09:03 |
| maaku | the chain needs to commit to a hash, but they could do that without taking up any space at all | 09:04 |
| maaku | see: contracthashtool | 09:04 |
| maaku | (and, actually, their customers can do it entirely without them, but sssshhhhh...) | 09:04 |
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| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] maaku: er... is that contracthashtool just incrementing the private key/public key by the data to encode and then sending funds to that public key? | 09:51 |
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| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] in that case, why use p2sh? | 09:52 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] it should be provable by the sender that they possess Q by spending, and they send their funds to Q+Q' where Q' is a (data)G, thereby committing to the data in the chain. then of course anyone can verify the data by looking at the original input pubkey and incrementing it by Q'. | 10:00 |
| nsh | maaku, i see | 10:01 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] and you still need to occupy an extra chunk of bytes on the chain any way you look at it... it's just in the one case it's slightly less because it's encoded into the change. | 10:02 |
| nsh | 'This tool allows you to take a redeemScript as a template and, using basic EC math, replace public keys with ones which are only spendable by the original key's private key holder and which cryptographically commit to the contract hash specified. In this way, it provides a transparent and undetectable way of sending payments which commit to some data without adding extra data to the chain. It does, however, require some small amount of out-of-band commu | 10:02 |
| nsh | nication.' | 10:02 |
| nsh | - https://github.com/Blockstream/contracthashtool | 10:02 |
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| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] if you want to make it private, you'd just use ECDH to exchange secret s with the recipient, then send funds to Q+Q'+sG | 10:06 |
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| nsh | tacotime: that is essentially implemented in sidechains-alpha | 10:13 |
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| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] well, no need to do it on a sidechain, it works fine in bitcoin and is just a few loc | 10:18 |
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| maaku | tacotime: but you can do commitments as parts of regular spends that would happen anyway | 10:39 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] maaku: well, if you sent the commitment to the recipient so they knew the output was theirs and incremented their public key with it, or you did it as change. | 10:41 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] it still requires an output on the chain to stick it into. | 10:41 |
| maaku | yes, but that output can serve some other purpose too | 10:42 |
| maaku | e.g. in elements alpha, the peg transfer itself commits to the destination address | 10:42 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] ah, i see | 10:43 |
| maaku | tacotime: and if you don't have a need to send coins at the moment, you could batch things to be timestamped and then commit to a merkle tree of them the next time you do send coins | 10:51 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] maaku: that's true, although it may be the case that they need to be timestamped immediately, in which case you'd probably have to outsource them to a service that's constantly sending transaction i suppose. | 10:52 |
| gmaxwell | It's not just "incremented" ... incremented isn't strong binding. In that you could claim it commited to Y when it really comitted to X by claiming a different original public key. | 10:55 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] gmaxwell: using the input pubkey? | 10:55 |
| gmaxwell | what contracthashtool implements is private... committer provides a nonce. The whole thing is a commitment, you can't 'decode' without the original data in any case, so there is no point in using ECDH. just including a nonce in the commitment is fine. | 10:56 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] i see | 10:57 |
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| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] and yes, you could always claim a different public key... but if your commitment is incrementing by the public key in the input there's no way to say that there was some other original public key. this is in the case where you make the commitment by sending funds to yourself. | 11:00 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] this isn't the case if you're incrementing outputs to unknown recipients | 11:01 |
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| gmaxwell | tacotime: no you don't have to be sending "to yourself", to replace the 'commitment', you just have to not be strongly bound to the basepoint. | 11:20 |
| gmaxwell | And that gratitious insecurity is trivally fixed. | 11:20 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] sorry about the terminology. | 11:20 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] i'll reread appendix a and play with the source code some. | 11:23 |
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| nsh | "that gratuitous insecurity is trivially fixed" will be the name of my next ambient works album | 11:54 |
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| roasbeef | tacotime: RE: P2CH, here's an additional resource: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1212.3257.pdf | 12:06 |
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| prosodyC | (<3) | 19:24 |
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| prosodyC | (<e) ) | 19:48 |
| prosodyC | (. https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/hnzqGv4C/. | 19:57 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Sep 28 00:00:40 2015 | ||
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