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| OxADADA | are they any useful tools for experimenting/debugging/emulating bitcoin script? | 10:28 |
|---|---|---|
| OxADADA | as of right now i'm using python-bitcoinlib, and debugging the op codes aren't very user-friendly :) | 10:28 |
| kanzure | webbtc.com had a debugger at one point; i think bitpay also released one implemented in javascript. | 10:28 |
| kanzure | yeah i would personally prefer to use python-bitcoinlib for script debugging | 10:29 |
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| OxADADA | thx b. | 10:30 |
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| andytoshi | OxADADA: are you comfortable using rust? | 11:14 |
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| andytoshi | OxADADA: #bitcoin-dev is probably a better channel for this. i have a rust library that can do script tracing etc (though i got distracted and the rust language moved on, so i don't have any tools that actually implement this right now) | 11:16 |
| OxADADA | andytoshi: not Rust, but i've been interested in trying it. | 11:17 |
| OxADADA | andytoshi: what do you mean 'tracing'? | 11:17 |
| andytoshi | OxADADA: i mean my lib has a function that you give a Script to and it returns an array of ScriptTrace objects which have a bunch of info about the opcode as well as the state of the stack, whether we are in an executed/unexecuted branch etc | 11:21 |
| andytoshi | i used to have a wallet that exposed this over RPC but it got bitrotted by the rustlib changes over the last year | 11:22 |
| OxADADA | andytoshi: what rotted, the libs? | 11:22 |
| andytoshi | OxADADA: my code. the library changed a lot because i did all the development before 1.0 | 11:23 |
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| OxADADA | andytoshi: if you posted it on GH it might get some lovin' from some code-fairy that finds it useful enough to update ;-) | 11:34 |
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| nsh | .t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uplycLvraw | 13:14 |
| yoleaux | nsh: Sorry, I don't know what timezone that is. If in doubt, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tz_database_time_zones for a list of options. | 13:14 |
| nsh | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uplycLvraw | 13:14 |
| yoleaux | Thinking Algorithmically About Impossibility - YouTube | 13:14 |
| nsh | (Simons Inst) | 13:14 |
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| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] 0xADADA: hashmal | 13:37 |
| MRL-Relay | [tacotime] https://github.com/mazaclub/hashmal | 13:38 |
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| amiller | probabilistic micropayments at CCS, one of the top security conferences | 14:04 |
| gmaxwell | amiller: does the scheme prevent/discourage doublespends? | 14:05 |
| amiller | http://www.initc3.org/uploads/5/7/5/2/57520325/micropay2.pdf | 14:05 |
| amiller | (that link is failing for me now so ymmv) | 14:06 |
| amiller | back up now | 14:06 |
| amiller | yes, using a greenaddress / micropayment 'hub' kinda thing | 14:06 |
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| amiller | btw, if i haven't mentioned it here already yet, CCS has TWO sessions on cryptocurrency http://www.sigsac.org/ccs/CCS2015/pro_agenda.html | 14:17 |
| bsm1175321 | Ah you're presenting your nonoutsourceable paper. Good. I like that idea. | 14:19 |
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| nsh | Abstract: We propose a new Elliptic curve at a security level significantly greater than the standard 128 bits, that fills a gap in current proposals while bucking the expected security vs cost curve by exploiting the new trick recently described by Granger and Scott. This essentially reduces the cost of field multiplication to that of a field squaring. -- http://eprint.iacr.org/2015/991 | 15:09 |
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| gmaxwell | Faster ECC over F 2 521 −1 by Granger and Scott is actually the interesting paper. :) | 15:20 |
| * nsh nods | 15:22 | |
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| nsh | ( https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/852.pdf ) | 15:24 |
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| derperter | new blood can I really mine coins for $ | 16:41 |
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| bramc | If an incentive is created for minimizing the number of utxos, it's important that that incentive not be so large that it causes everyone to combine all utxos into one giant one because they're getting paid for it. | 17:37 |
| bramc | Here's an interesting question: Let's say that a lot of people have dust which is so small as to be worthless, but there's an incentive for fewer utxos which will make them get paid for destroying it. Can you construct a massive collaborative protocol so that a whole lot of people with such dust can make one giant transaction with all of them as inputs where the output goes to one of them by lottery, proportionately weig | 17:39 |
| bramc | hted by their amount of input? | 17:39 |
| gmaxwell | with the priority logic in bitcoin core I very carfully and intentionally capped it so at best the spend makes the utxo consumption 'free', but never negative in cost. | 17:40 |
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| bramc | gmaxwell, I'm assuming some kind of fee structure imposed by the blockchain itself, including the possibility for the fee to go negative in this extreme case, and narcissistic randian calculation on the part of local wallets | 17:42 |
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| bramc | Your treehugger notions of default altruistic behavior in the bitcoin core are ridiculous. Obviously all end users will hand modify and recompile their wallets to optimize for transaction fees. | 17:48 |
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| gmaxwell | bramc: what I just described avoids the bad behavior. Basically if you cap the benefit of consuming a utxo so that it can never go negative (but instead perhaps be small) it won't create crazy incentives like creating lots of utxo so you can burn them later. And yea, w/ priority there is no real incentive to follow it, but the same kind of logic should be workable to things that can't just be by | 17:53 |
| gmaxwell | passed. | 17:53 |
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| bramc | gmaxwell, Ideally if there's reward for destroying utxos there should be punishment for creating them in the first place (although that's covered somewhat reasonably by per-byte transaction fees) | 17:54 |
| gmaxwell | right, but now imagine that you have a block cost limit that is creating a limited supply for space. If utxo consumption has a sufficiently negative cost it would be in your interest to make sure you always emit a maximum size block to store up the cost for the future, if there aren't otherwise enough transactions to fill it. | 17:57 |
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| bramc | Yes, it isn't clear how to make an incentive for reducing utxos which doesn't also create a bunch of nasty side effects | 18:26 |
| bramc | I haven't really thought about this before except in the most vague and hand-wavy of ways. I don't really like it. | 18:26 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Oct 14 00:00:56 2015 | ||
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