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| instagibbs | If you need a quick edit or two holler | 06:30 |
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| fluffypony | Shen Noether's ring signature modification to Confidential Transactions is coming together more formally, input and comments welcome: https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/blob/master/RingCT0.1_copy.pdf | 08:12 |
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| MRL-Relay | [shen] +1 | 08:16 |
| tromp__ | fluffypony: how does the tx size compare with CT (~2.5KB) ? | 08:18 |
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| MRL-Relay | [shen] tromp_ haven't worked out all the complexities, but should be comparable - can do referencing to commitments / keys in the previous transactions rather than actually include them, and use the (very nice) boromean compression for range proofs | 08:21 |
| bsm1175321 | good ideas... | 08:22 |
| bsm1175321 | How do we get these things into bitcoin? ;-) | 08:23 |
| kanzure | testnet and sidechains, usually | 08:24 |
| bsm1175321 | Well of course, I'm just afraid all the cool features in sidechains will stagnate there, because AFAIK there is no schedule to bring them on board to bitcoin. | 08:38 |
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| kanzure | port of contracthashtool in rust https://github.com/apoelstra/pacthash | 08:55 |
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| waxwing | fluffypony: i guess 123456G gets a pass on NUMS :) ... is it much harder in ed25519 than secp256k1 i wonder? | 09:07 |
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| MRL-Relay | [shen] waxwing 1/8 of hashes are multiples of the basepoint in the curve group, so iirc I just tried like H(12G), H(123G), H(1234G), .., H(123456G) | 09:10 |
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| waxwing | shen: makes sense. | 09:11 |
| Taek | gmaxwell: if you enable miners to incentivize extending their blocks (via some scheme of fee-forwarding), you also enable them to incentivize extending reorgs | 09:13 |
| Taek | a miner attempting a large enough double spend might be perfectly content offering XXXbtc for extending a specific block | 09:13 |
| Taek | I guess this could be done out-of-band anyway, but fee forwarding formalizes the process | 09:14 |
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| Taek | "An epic list of bitcoin research": https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VaWhbAj7hWNdiE73P-W-wrl5a0WNgzjofmZXe0Rh5sg/edit?pli=1#gid=0 | 09:36 |
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| OxADADA | Taek: ;p | 09:41 |
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| OxADADA | Taek: all that info should go right into your knosys project | 09:42 |
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| akrmn | (07:16:44 PM) gmaxwell: perhaps some people in all their eager and zeal forget that bitcoin is not secure from a cryptographic perspective; and in spite of decades of work no real progress has been made on a cryptographically secure decenteralized consensus system. ... there is always going to be a very strong economic component to bitcoin's security. <- Any further reading on this? I don't quite understand what he means. | 09:50 |
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| Taek | akrmn: as far as most researchers understand, you're never going to be able to get a secure form of decentralized consensus without involving some form of economic sacrifice | 09:52 |
| Taek | this isn't something that has been formally proven, but it would be very surprising if it didn't end up being the case | 09:52 |
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| Taek | proof-of-work is essentially economic sacrifice. Bitcoin's security comes from assuming that, under a certain incentive model, no single party will be able to make more economic sacrifice than all other parties combined | 09:53 |
| akrmn | Taek: ok.. By secure, you mean authenticated with cryptography or what? | 09:53 |
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| Taek | In the case of Bitcoin, it means not being able to break the consensus rules, and not being able to spend the same money twice | 09:54 |
| akrmn | o ok | 09:54 |
| bsm1175321 | Perhaps he means that Bitcoin's consensus is only asymptotic, not convergent. | 09:54 |
| akrmn | so you mean we can't do bitcoin without using up energy (like proof of stake tries to do)? | 09:55 |
| Taek | (caveat, economic sacrifice is measured in the form of POW. Some people can do more POW with less sacrifice, and that's a shortcoming of the POW system) | 09:55 |
| kanzure | "economic sacrifice" should instead read as "physical sacrifice" | 09:56 |
| kanzure | e.g. universal scarcity of negentropy | 09:56 |
| bsm1175321 | akrmn: I'd say yes. | 09:56 |
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| akrmn | interesting | 09:57 |
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| gmaxwell | Taek: you can already incentivize extending reorgs, without any fee forwardings. | 10:04 |
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| gmaxwell | Taek: just using a cascade of nlocked txn. | 10:04 |
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| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10391996 | 11:16 |
| yoleaux | Decentralized Reddit using a DHT to store content and a blockchain to rank it | Hacker News | 11:16 |
| kanzure | welp at least the obvious was pointed out (don't need a blockchain for that, yo) but has some interesting citations to other possibly-ok work in the comments | 11:17 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Oct 16 00:00:58 2015 | ||
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