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| jl2012 | sipa: for the witness commitment format, you don't really need to spend 1 byte to indicate the depth of the tree | 00:45 |
|---|---|---|
| jl2012 | you can encode it with the nonce | 00:46 |
| jl2012 | um....forget it....it just effectively reduces the space of the nonce | 00:48 |
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| maaku_ | ripple trade is no more : https://forum.ripple.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15818 | 05:28 |
| maaku_ | can we haz the ripple name back plz? | 05:28 |
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| JackH | they are moving into blockchain | 08:23 |
| JackH | where the big money is | 08:23 |
| JackH | I wonder what will happen when everyone realizes that it all doesnt matter and that nothing can compare to Bitcoin | 08:24 |
| JackH | and even when they integrate with "blockchain" Bitcoin still wont go away | 08:24 |
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| jl2012 | I'm studying http://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/716b955c130e6c703fac336ea17b1670/duplex-micropayment-channels.pdf | 09:27 |
| jl2012 | Could we use duplex payment channel now? or do we also need segwit? | 09:27 |
| sipa | we need ntxid or segwit | 09:28 |
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| JackH | is ntxid exlusively needed for duplex channels, or does it apply to lightning as well? | 09:36 |
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| jl2012 | sipa: didn't they say we have "level 1 LN" with CLTV? So the "level 1 LN" is not based on the duplex channel? | 09:46 |
| JackH | they are different projects, but what I understand myself is that CSV is level 2 for LN | 09:46 |
| JackH | while the ntxid is for duplex exclusively? that I am not sure of | 09:47 |
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| JackH | ntxid strips the signatures from the tx id's | 09:48 |
| jl2012 | segwit is effectively ntxid, afaik | 09:48 |
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| JackH | yes but I believe its also much more than that | 09:49 |
| JackH | normalized tx ids have been planned since mtgox | 09:50 |
| jl2012 | the ntxid for mtgox has no consensus meaning | 09:52 |
| JackH | true | 09:52 |
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| jl2012 | sipa: for your segwit implemention, you restrict the length of the segwit script to 2-41 bytes. Does it mean if one wants to have a multisig witness programme with P2SH, he must use the version 0x01 witness programme? So that becomes a double P2SH? | 09:57 |
| phantomcircuit | JackH, lightning is hash locked duplex micropayment channels | 09:57 |
| phantomcircuit | if you can get the duplex micropayment channels to work the hash locking will work | 09:58 |
| phantomcircuit | the issue currently is that the channel open transaction can be mutated which would cause both participants funds to be locked up until both parties signed the new transaction | 09:58 |
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| phantomcircuit | the problem with that is if the payments are imbalanced or the time priority of money is imbalanced then one participant can effectively hold the others money hostage | 09:59 |
| phantomcircuit | jl2012, ^ | 10:00 |
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| jl2012 | thanks. I think I still have a lot to read | 10:02 |
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| sipa | jl2012: yes, there is no reason to put complex scripts in the scriptPubKey | 10:03 |
| phantomcircuit | sipa, as in all outputs should be using p2sh, not that the logical script pub key would never need to be complex, correct? | 10:05 |
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| sipa | right | 10:05 |
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| jl2012 | why 41 bytes? 1 version + (1+32) hash + 7 anything else? | 10:07 |
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| JackH | phantomcircuit, thanks for the clarification for duplex | 12:22 |
| JackH | any idea when we have hash locks? | 12:22 |
| phantomcircuit | JackH: today? | 12:22 |
| phantomcircuit | they're not standard but you can do that today | 12:22 |
| JackH | wait, this is now possible? | 12:23 |
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| JackH | duplex can work 100%? | 12:23 |
| phantomcircuit | no | 12:23 |
| phantomcircuit | hash locks work today | 12:23 |
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| JackH | yes CTLV | 12:23 |
| phantomcircuit | duplex micropayment channels 99% work today, but can be held hostage in the event of a mutated transaction | 12:23 |
| JackH | and for that we need ntx right? | 12:23 |
| phantomcircuit | they're technically different things | 12:24 |
| phantomcircuit | either consensus enforced ntx or sw | 12:24 |
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| phantomcircuit | which are pretty similar in practice | 12:24 |
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| sipa | phantomcircuit: have you read cdecker's duplex micropayment channels? | 12:33 |
| phantomcircuit | sipa: i did but i cant honestly say i remember much from it | 12:34 |
| phantomcircuit | you're speaking of this right? http://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/716b955c130e6c703fac336ea17b1670/duplex-micropayment-channels.pdf | 12:35 |
| sipa | yes, just asking because i have nkt, but i know it's more eliborate than what you'd expect from the name | 12:37 |
| sipa | elaborate | 12:37 |
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| bramc | Info on cache misses. I'm mostly shooting for avoiding L1/L2 cache misses: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1126529/what-is-the-cost-of-an-l1-cache-miss | 15:52 |
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| bramc | Observations for today: (1) You can check if something is included faster if you aren't making a proof, because in a balanced section of the tree you can skip down (2) marking something as being empty by giving it a special value is a lot more shit to check than marking it in the medatada byte | 16:44 |
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| maaku_ | duplex channels work with CLTV, but are only efficient with certain usage assumptions, since the tradeoffs of timelock vs safety are annoying | 19:18 |
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| jl2012 | i think the duplex channel is a realization of Satoshi's original vision with nSequence, consensus enforced. Can't wait for OP_CSV and segwit | 19:33 |
| jl2012 | my guesstimation is CSV in 2 months and segwit in 6 months? | 19:35 |
| aj | jl2012: i'd guess 3 months for CSV (xmas, ny, cny...) | 19:37 |
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| jl2012 | I don't include the time for miner upgrade. So Chinese new year is irrelevant | 19:38 |
| aj | jl2012: oh, i don't count it as done 'til miners upgrade :) | 19:38 |
| aj | jl2012: but in that case, yeah, sounds pretty reasonable | 19:39 |
| jl2012 | but yes, don't assume Chinese miners do anything in Feb | 19:39 |
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