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| kanzure | is there any multiparty OTR implementation? | 05:18 |
|---|---|---|
| btcdrak | kanzure: the only think I heard of was this https://github.com/cryptocat/cryptocat/wiki/mpOTR-Project-Plan | 05:19 |
| nsh | it's a difficult problem | 05:24 |
| nsh | i had a vague notion that perhaps you could attack it using borromean rings but i haven't elaborated that | 05:25 |
| nsh | previous/current efforts: https://whispersystems.org/blog/private-groups/ | 05:28 |
| nsh | matt green navel-gazes: http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2014/07/noodling-about-im-protocols.html | 05:30 |
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| nsh | .title https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/deuxdrop-planning/2011-November/000013.html | 05:38 |
| yoleaux | notes from mpOTR (multi-party off-the-record) paper reading relating to our conversation crypto | 05:38 |
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| bsm1175321 | Multiparty OTR would be badass. | 08:18 |
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| rasengan | I would just do the simple solution for multiparty Otr heh just send same msg to everyone using otr lol | 09:32 |
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| phantomcircuit | rasengan, that's really the only sane way to do it | 09:36 |
| phantomcircuit | but it leads to questions like, do we care if i send different people different messages? | 09:36 |
| phantomcircuit | how do we decide group membership? | 09:36 |
| rasengan | true have to generate hash to authenticate msg is the same | 09:37 |
| nsh | consistency of transcript (does everyone think the same conversation happened) and weak or strong repudiability and the same degree of authentication, forward-secrecy and protection of long-term identities | 09:37 |
| nsh | does not scale if you do a naive generalisation to two-party like that | 09:37 |
| nsh | things start to go potentially wrong in different ways | 09:37 |
| nsh | *of two-party | 09:38 |
| phantomcircuit | nsh, it scales O(n) which isn't great but also isn't terrible | 09:38 |
| phantomcircuit | the bigger issue is whether everybody saw the same thing | 09:39 |
| bsm1175321 | The requirement of forward secrecy seems to be incompatible with multi-party. | 09:39 |
| nsh | i meant that none of those properties remain exactly as strong | 09:39 |
| nsh | or at least, you have to give up some to retain others | 09:39 |
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| phantomcircuit | bsm1175321, there has to be a design decision made between guaranteeing to multiple parties that they all got the same message and forward secrecy | 09:45 |
| phantomcircuit | (i think, maybe someone has a clever design that does both) | 09:45 |
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| adlai | has there been ever any thought into sybil-resistant troll handling? beyond just "don't let anybody outside your WoT contact you, for any reason, ever" | 16:13 |
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| bsm1175321 | Hashcash. | 16:14 |
| * bsm1175321 is still frustrated that hashcash is not being used for its original purpose. | 16:15 | |
| belcher | with email hashcash i never got how you decide the difficulty, except experimentally by "raise it when you start getting spam" | 16:16 |
| adlai | eh, a sufficiently dedicated/funded troll effort will get superior hashcash performance. maybe personalized hashcash? | 16:18 |
| adlai | ie, i declare that communications to me must have a vanity address with finite total PoW per bitcoin adjustment, unless you're in my WoT, for whatever definition works, if you are | 16:18 |
| bsm1175321 | You dynamically adjust the difficulty depending on your spam. Bitcoin, as a proxy for hashcash, isn't as good because you have to wait for the confirmation time. | 16:18 |
| adlai | conf time puts a base cost, that of the tx fee confirmable within your maximal latency tolerance | 16:19 |
| maaku | adlai: i declare that communications to me must include a solved block on tip with myself as the coinbase payout | 16:19 |
| adlai | please don't be elitist, what if some poor souls who can't afford their own ants want to responsibly disclose your fuckups? | 16:19 |
| bsm1175321 | adlai: You can't have it both ways. Sybil resistance implies resource expenditure. | 16:20 |
| bsm1175321 | It's not elitist, it's reality. | 16:20 |
| belcher | all communications to me must be using your real name on facebook.com | 16:21 |
| adlai | resource expenditure can be measured in a variety of ways. i'm suggesting that using a more liquid/fungible market (btc tx fee) is an arbitrarily/arguably better critereon than one much less so - sha256d hashpower | 16:22 |
| bsm1175321 | belcher: good luck getting crypto verification of that. | 16:22 |
| adlai | /invite bsm1175321 #tlsnotary-chat | 16:22 |
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| adlai | has there been any documentation of sybil attacks against bitmessage? | 18:04 |
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| pigeons | i havent looked at it in a long time, it used to take a whole lot of bandwidth to forward every message for the whole network, and to send a mesage you had to request a pubkey first so you could tell when the recipeinet came online and what node you first saw the pubkey from | 18:12 |
| pigeons | but i dont remember anything about sybil attacks | 18:12 |
| adlai | well it uses naive PoW... you could make a BM-spamASIC the moment widespread use began | 18:13 |
| adlai | BTC at least has dynamic difficulty adjustment. so i guess the ideal sybil-resistent nonglobal channel should have identity-based btc-style "difficulty"? | 18:16 |
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| ThomasV | Luke-Jr: thanks | 23:18 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Jan 11 00:00:01 2016 | ||
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