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| lmatteis | relating my consensus questions using CAPTCHAs from a couple days ago, here's some interesting research i found if anybody's interested: https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/145.pdf | 13:54 |
|---|---|---|
| lmatteis | has anybody heard of that HumanCoin? | 13:55 |
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| nsh | there is no future worth pursuing that involves people solving more captchas | 15:27 |
| nsh | attempt no landing there | 15:27 |
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| gmaxwell | somehow the image of apes throwing bones is fitting. | 15:29 |
| c0rw1n | no : *that* might hit something edible | 15:29 |
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| bsm1175321 | lmatteis: I'm of the opinion that identifying pieces of meat is a losing proposition. Siamese twins exist and so do software agents/bots, and both legitimately have a right to exist and/or do my bidding. | 20:40 |
| bsm1175321 | This world is full of "identity" which needs to be factorized into separable problems: meat identification; default risk; social evaluation; etc. | 20:42 |
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| bsm1175321 | lmatteis: So you need to more clearly identify the problem you're trying to solve, by identifying humans... | 20:43 |
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| kanzure | also, what's so great about humans? | 20:45 |
| kanzure | rhetorical question do not answer | 20:45 |
| bsm1175321 | kanzure: cephalopods are tastier. | 20:45 |
| kanzure | speak for yourself. | 20:45 |
| smooth | infinitesimally more on topic, it still doesn't solve the problem with replay | 20:45 |
| bsm1175321 | And should we deny them rights? | 20:45 |
| kanzure | anyway, eventually people will have to get over the fact that not all humanoids have identity- a bunch will be emulations running around in software | 20:46 |
| kanzure | with fiat-shamir key sharing schemes to keep things in check or something | 20:46 |
| * kanzure handwaves | 20:46 | |
| bsm1175321 | smooth: That's an interesting point...but I suppose it's easy enough to change a captcha by one bit so as to change it's hash? | 20:46 |
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| smooth | bsm1175321: the problem is that one human can solve one captcha that opens 1000 different locks | 20:47 |
| smooth | even assuming human solving is possible and matters | 20:47 |
| bsm1175321 | kanzure: Humans are not great, nor identifiable. See my Siamese twins example...squish hard enough and one becomes two... | 20:48 |
| bsm1175321 | morbid, I agree, but a digression... | 20:48 |
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| bsm1175321 | "Identity" is an illusion. There are only a couple of interesting problems to solve: (1) do you hold the same private keys as the entity that visited my site as last time? (2) Has someone with lower risk evaluation than your own in attested to you regarding your default risk? (3) <insert problem here> | 20:53 |
| kanzure | number the third one is "convincing everyone else that this list is sufficient" | 20:53 |
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| bsm1175321 | Sufficient for what? If you haven't specified the problem you're solving, you're probably using "identity" as a proxy for an entirely different problem that would be better solved in an entirely different way... | 21:10 |
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| smooth | 22:37 | |
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| lmatteis | smooth: which problem of replay? | 23:42 |
| smooth | lmatteis: the most efficient way to solve a captcha is to reuse it on another service | 23:46 |
| lmatteis | the paper says they were able to find a way to generate captchas, without the computer itself knowing what it generated (via obfuscation) | 23:47 |
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| lmatteis | in that sense, i can generate on my computer a proof that i am a human, without a trusted third party | 23:48 |
| lmatteis | that's pretty interesting if you ask me | 23:48 |
| smooth | as far as i can tell they dont prove that at all, they just prove that the computer that generated it didn't itself jump right to the answer | 23:51 |
| smooth | beyond that, all the existing captcha failure modes exist | 23:51 |
| lmatteis | you're talking about AI advancements? | 23:53 |
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| smooth | for example, sure | 23:53 |
| smooth | not even advancements necessarily, maybe just people who have better AI than you know about | 23:53 |
| smooth | i guess you could call that advancements in a way though | 23:54 |
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| lmatteis | right, their main argument is that there will be a *gap* between AI and humans for still a long time | 23:54 |
| lmatteis | also their argument that a crypto based on this proof of human work will actually generate employment as people are hired to solve captchas | 23:55 |
| lmatteis | quite fascinating | 23:56 |
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| r0ach | sounds horrible | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Fri May 13 00:00:13 2016 | ||
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