2016-05-20.log

--- Log opened Fri May 20 08:08:07 2016
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-!- Topic for #bitcoin-wizards: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja08:08
-!- Topic set by sipa [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] [Fri Oct 30 00:53:34 2015]08:08
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fluffyponyOT, but fascinating if you've been following the EmDrive snakeoil / not snakeoil thing: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601299/the-curious-link-between-the-fly-by-anomaly-and-the-impossible-emdrive-thruster/17:45
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psztorcAhem, if there are any wizards here. I'm finishing up a tiny identity project, where users are associated with commitments to public keys. I wanted to add a finishing touch where you can also send money to these keys. I'm wondering if, to create a publicly associated Stealth Address, I need to add a whole field to the database (such that it is "ID", "H(PubKey)", "Stealth Address"), or if there's some cryptomagic way of deriving18:04
psztorcthe public Stealth Address from H(PubKey).18:04
psztorcI read this ( https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January/004020.html ) but I did not find the details.18:05
psztorcIt would seem that the answer is no. https://wiki.unsystem.net/en/index.php/DarkWallet/Stealth#Dual-key_stealth18:08
psztorcBut, I guess, you never know.18:08
psztorcI guess the H(PubKey) in the database could instead be H(Pubkey + StealthAddress).18:11
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waxwingpsztorc: i'm confused, you can publish a stealth receiver pubkey then anyone can derive a one-time stealth address for you by communicating a sender pubkey. if you publish the actual address, you've removed the point of it; why not just use an ordinary receiving address.18:16
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psztorcwaxwing: The marginal benefit is that there is no user error, and no jumbled mess of characters. Instead I just look up "waxwing" and then I can pay you, without anyone knowing.18:17
psztorcThe target user is someone who has no idea what a key is.18:18
psztorcAnd no idea what PGP is.18:18
waxwingthere are schemes for that involving humanising addresses, i don't think you need the ECDH/stealth approach for that. the virtue of the stealth setup is that outside observers cannot derive the receiving address from the public information.18:19
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psztorcYes, and?18:21
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waxwingok, another tack: you can publish a receiver pubkey. then, the sender can use stealth to send to it, but: either the sender must somehow communicate that pubkey to the receiver (it can be done in public, anonymity caveats notwithstanding), or the receiver must scan transactions to find the payment.18:26
waxwingapologies if i'm missing your point.18:26
psztorcApology accepted.18:26
psztorcI'm building a Namecoin-like thing.18:27
waxwinghumanised representations seems to be orthogonal18:27
psztorcCorrect.18:27
psztorcThe thing has people's identies , and some general "human stuff" WoT ish stuff. And it links that to something a computer can use.18:28
psztorcNamely H(PubKey), because I assumed that the user could just send around their pubkey on command, or that Google would index them or whatever.18:28
psztorcAnd I didn't want it taking up space.18:28
psztorcBut I thought, "Hey, for fun, what if you could *pay* these identities some Bitcoin."18:28
psztorcSo of course you could try to map the PubKey to a BTC address, but then people would know how much money was being sent to them!18:29
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psztorcThat's no good. So I am wondering if you can "publish" the stealth address within the H(PubKey) as it was set up, and it seems the answer is "no".18:30
waxwingif you want commitments you should probably be doing H(pubkey, nonce). (side point, maybe not relevant)18:30
psztorcBut then, moments ago, I realized that you could make the H() be H( pubkey + stealth ).18:30
waxwingyes doing ecdh with only H(pubkey) doesn't work i think18:30
psztorcThe nonce of what? And why?18:30
waxwingif you want a commitment (not saying you do) you should add a nonce to avoid ease of finding the data by search etc.18:31
psztorcNo, it's fine I want it all to be found anyway.18:31
psztorcAnyway I think the H( pubkey, stealth address ) will work just fine. I wonder if there's anything else that should be in there?18:33
kvnn /join #btcbase18:33
waxwingbut in what sense stealth address? stealth addresses are derived uniquely per sender?18:33
waxwingif i get you, you're trying to create a scenario where the published data of the receiver allows anyone to send to it, but you don't want to publish the raw pubkey.18:33
psztorc? No no I merely want to link the stealth address to the human, in as few bytes as possible.18:34
psztorcProbably I confused everyone here by not immediately realizing the simpler way to do it.18:34
waxwingwhat do you mean by "the" stealth address? the address changes per sender.18:34
waxwingwell, per payment i should say18:35
kvnnHe's defined it as a "publicly associated Stealth Address"18:35
psztorcI mean this thing: s9KND3vfXjs3YqfZp86Acce3bM7Mhuptwh6mjeDnThsDei9Z2ZZcU18:35
waxwinghow is that different from an ordinary address? the point of stealth is to prevent public association18:35
psztorcMy understanding is that you publish the s9KND3vfXjs3YqfZp86Acce3bM7Mhuptwh6mjeDnThsDei9Z2ZZcU which is safely reuseable.18:36
psztorcI expected someone to do something like Cryptomagic(Pubkey) = Ingredients for Stealth Address = Stealth Address. That is why I asked.18:37
waxwingyou can do that by announcing the pubkey. then it's reusable for different payers.18:37
waxwinghash of pubkey, i think ECDH cannot work that way.18:37
psztorc: )  Ok, this is my fault that everyone is confused, but my problem is solved so, thank you IRC Universe.18:38
psztorcThe PubKey is, like, an RSA pubkey.18:38
psztorcBut the explanation might as well wait for the publication at this point. Haha18:38
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jinquihey guys, does anyone know off hand what the byte-savings are for using sendmany vs sendtransaction when you have multiple pay to addresses?20:00
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Taek#bitcoin-dev20:17
maakuN-1 outputs20:24
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jinquimaaku, so the byte-savings is just one output?20:44
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