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| waxwing | this looks interesting, does anyone have a link to the pdf/slides? http://bitcoinference.com/2015/How-Perfect-Offline-Wallets-Can-Still-Leak-Bitcoin-Private-Keys.html | 04:16 |
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| r0ach | some horrific pulse width modulation on that display | 04:18 |
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| nsh | isn't it [just] ECDSA nonce reuse leakage,? | 04:22 |
| nsh | here's the paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1501.00447 | 04:22 |
| nsh | (i think it might be possible to use a hierarchical deterministic privkey algorithm to preclude reuse of nonces by used stuffing a probabilistic data structure that accumulates used nonces | 04:24 |
| nsh | maybe tricky but) | 04:24 |
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| nsh | (preferable to switch to patent-free non-footshooty signature system if/when opportunity arises) | 04:28 |
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| maaku | kanzure: there's some attributions in those notes... | 09:38 |
| maaku | look at the asicboost section in particular | 09:38 |
| maaku | i don't know if that's an issue or not actually, just mentioning | 09:40 |
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| kanzure | maaku: yes there was some excerpts from irc messages i had received, good point | 10:26 |
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| kanzure | "Multi-party channels" https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2016-May/000543.html | 13:59 |
| gwillen | kanzure: oooooh. | 14:02 |
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| kanzure | in zurich, i had a conversation over dinner with instagibbs and maaku about multi-party payment channels in lightning | 14:02 |
| kanzure | instagibbs had mentioned that someone (poon?) had sent to a mailing list a writeup about why multi-party doesn't work for lightning payment channels | 14:02 |
| kanzure | my contention was that you could probably make a system where if one party cheats that you could check which signature was used for cheating and then boot them out of the multisig pool or something | 14:03 |
| kanzure | .... sorry for all the non-details :). | 14:03 |
| gwillen | haha, no worries | 14:04 |
| gwillen | I'm very excited about this, though. Sharing the 'posted bonds' in lightning among multiple channels seems big to me in terms of the practicality of the system. | 14:04 |
| gwillen | (or among more than two parties to a single channel.) | 14:04 |
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| maaku | kanzure: yes, but our back of napkin result was that it would take k*O((n-1)!) signatures per channel update, where n is the number of parties and k the number of signatures normally required for a bidirectional channel | 14:11 |
| maaku | so it might make sense for n=3, but I'm doubtful for other reasons. n=4 and above is probably out of the question | 14:11 |
| maaku | actually k*O(n! - 1) | 14:12 |
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| gwillen | maaku: what about the scenario where updates only have to be signed by (1) participants who lose value in the update and (2) the distinguished 'hub' node? | 14:18 |
| gwillen | Do you think that could improve on that? | 14:18 |
| maaku | gwillen: maybe.. i might have to whiteboard that | 14:19 |
| maaku | but yes that would change it considerably | 14:19 |
| * gwillen nods | 14:19 | |
| maaku | gwillen: i'm not sure it's a simple thing to do that at least with the primritives bitcoin script has available, but someone should try | 14:20 |
| instagibbs | kanzure, I do not doubt that an ok solution exists, but the only one I think works without "big" softforks don't scale well | 14:23 |
| instagibbs | jl2012 and I discussed this a few days ago in scrollback | 14:23 |
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| * instagibbs notices email, reads | 14:25 | |
| jl2012 | I multiway payment channel with the locktime approach is more efficient than LN approach | 14:27 |
| jl2012 | I think.... | 14:28 |
| instagibbs | jl2012, I did more thinking and don't get how csv would work, but it's possible I'm an idiot. The initial funding transaction gets published... can't csv that | 14:28 |
| jl2012 | initial funding tx (published) --> n-of-n (unpublished, no locktime) --> invalidation chain (unpublished, BIP68 locktime) | 14:30 |
| jl2012 | if everyone cooperate, the n-of-n tx should never be published | 14:32 |
| jl2012 | otherwise, publish it and wait for the invalidation to mature | 14:33 |
| jl2012 | so the channel could be opened indefinitely | 14:33 |
| instagibbs | oh duh | 14:35 |
| jl2012 | don't need CSV (BIP112), I think | 14:37 |
| instagibbs | original construction was nlocktime only, so makes sense | 14:40 |
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