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| wallet42 | sipa: awesome graph! how did you produce it? http://bitcoin.sipa.be/utxo_size.png | 14:35 |
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| sipa | wallet42: i have the bitcoind branch that generates the number somewhere | 14:40 |
| @gmaxwell | and gnuplot | 14:40 |
| bsm117532 | What happened last summer to generate the large increase in ~10 uBTC outputs? | 14:41 |
| Ylbam | stress tests ;) | 14:41 |
| helo | the rumored classic attack? | 14:41 |
| wallet42 | i wanted to create a graph that uses similar historical utxo data: how many coins are created and destroyed in a certain period e.g. 1 day/1week. | 14:42 |
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| mryandao | wasn't Micropayment Channels proposed by Jeremy Spillman but first implemented by Mike Hearn in bitcoinj? | 15:53 |
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| @gmaxwell | mryandao: no. They were proposed by bitcoin's creator, and implemented in bitcoinj BlueMatt. | 16:19 |
| @gmaxwell | (and also described in public by Mike Hearn.) | 16:19 |
| BlueMatt | mryandao: IIRC the specific structure/script proposed was originally Jeremy Spillman and then tweaked by Hearn before I implemented it | 16:31 |
| BlueMatt | but the concept was satoshi, AFAIU | 16:31 |
| @gmaxwell | BlueMatt: thanks | 16:31 |
| sipa | weren't there two different approaches? | 16:31 |
| sipa | one relying on old semantics, which doesn't actually work anymore, or so? | 16:32 |
| BlueMatt | sipa: there was a lot of talk of using sequence for it, ie decreasing sequence number ala lightning now that that has actual semantics | 16:32 |
| kanzure | another thing to point out is that micropayment as a concept is from pre-bitcoin | 16:32 |
| BlueMatt | afaiu this is pretty much the purpose of sequence number - payment channels | 16:33 |
| kanzure | (even crypto-related micropayment initiatives) | 16:33 |
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| ale______ | @gmaxwell is it possible to create a provably unspendable xpub? | 17:35 |
| nsh | to what end? | 17:39 |
| petertodd | kanzure: never did review darkleaks IIRC | 17:41 |
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| ale______ | @nsh want to create an m of n multisig address where it's only possible that m - 1 xprvs exist | 18:20 |
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| nsh | why not just use a non xpub key for the unspendable one? | 18:36 |
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| andytoshi | ale______: yes, use a compressed pubkey with 0 or 5 as the x-coordinate, for example. but i suspect that whatever problem you're solving with this can be solved more efficiently | 19:04 |
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| ale______ | andytoshi: Thanks. Can you point me to any literature on why this works? How do you think it could be solved more efficiently? | 19:06 |
| andytoshi | ale______: what are you doing? | 19:09 |
| ale______ | andytoshi: I'm making a multi-sig address that much be m of n, so it requires n xpubs. I want to ensure that there will only be m - 1 xprvs I ever need to worry about securing. I cannot make it (m - 1) of (n - 1), because the system I'm using requires n xpubs. | 19:11 |
| ale______ | andytoshi: s/much/must | 19:13 |
| andytoshi | ok, well the more efficient thing is to fix the underlying system :) | 19:13 |
| andytoshi | but the reason this works is that for any x value, there are at most two elliptic curve points with said x-value. but for some x-values, there are no such points. this falls out of the definiton of the elliptic curve that bitcoin uses (y^2 = x^3 + 7 mod 2^256 - 2^32 - 977 or something) | 19:14 |
| andytoshi | 5 is such an x-value. so you can encode a "pubkey with x-value 5" which will be encoded correctly, but not correspond to any point | 19:15 |
| andytoshi | the bitcoin script interpreter does check pubkey encoding (under some circumstances, i'm unsure about during blockchain verification) and will reject the whole script outright if one is badly encoded | 19:16 |
| andytoshi | but it -won't- if an invalid point is correctly encoded | 19:16 |
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| ale______ | andytoshi: excellent, thank you so much. I will play around with the secp256k1 curve equation until I'm convinced. Then figure out how to properly encode it. | 19:22 |
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| alex___ | andytoshi: what should I put for the y-value if I choose an x-value of 5? I need to encode the public key with 0x04 + 32-bit big-endian x value + 32-bit big-endian y-value. | 22:10 |
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| @gmaxwell | alex___: anything you want, but ... what the heck are you doing where you're required to use a certian number of keys and they must be uncompressed?! | 22:11 |
| alex___ | I'm using BitGo's API which only makes 2 of 3 multisig addresses. I want to create a wallet, and the function I'm using requires 3 keypairs to be passed in. | 22:18 |
| alex___ | I only care about 2 of the keypairs (one which a customer which generate client-side, the other I generate on my own server), so this 3rd keypair is really just a liability. | 22:18 |
| alex___ | If I or the customer were to generate the 3rd keypair ourselves and then were to be compromised, the attacker could then sign their own transactions. | 22:18 |
| alex___ | So I want this 3rd key to have no private key (i.e. provably unspendable) so that an attacker could only spend from the address if both I and the customer were to be compromised. | 22:19 |
| alex___ | If there's a better way to approach this, I'd love to know! | 22:20 |
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| @gmaxwell | I'm going to guess that their API will validate the keys, so you won't be able to do that. | 22:29 |
| @gmaxwell | so first, you should probably ask them to support 2 of 2. At least ask. :) | 22:31 |
| @gmaxwell | If you're going to work around it this way, you can generate a nothing up my sleeve pubkey... for which a private key exists but no one knows it. | 22:32 |
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| mryandao | oh he left :( | 22:35 |
| @gmaxwell | yes, thats why I stopped talking. | 22:36 |
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| alex___ | gmaxwell: OK thanks for the suggestions (and sorry, I didn't know bitcoin-wizards wasn't for short-term development. I'll move to bitcoin-dev) | 22:41 |
| mryandao | if i'm doing something related to atomic coin swaps, would this be the right channel to share my thoughts? | 22:42 |
| mryandao | or should i move to #bitcoin-dev too? | 22:42 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Aug 17 00:00:28 2016 | ||
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