| --- Log opened Sat Sep 17 00:00:56 2016 | ||
| -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:01 | |
| -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 00:02 | |
| -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zwtwnjngrecjcegp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:03 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 00:04 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:06 | |
| -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@172.56.17.45] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:10 | |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 00:10 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@223.176.188.41] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:14 | |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:17 | |
| -!- CrazyTruthYakDDS [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nlgbtwlkqnaakujl] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 00:18 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@223.176.188.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 00:21 | |
| -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:29 | |
| -!- cdecker [~cdecker@184.68.38.206] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:33 | |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 00:36 | |
| -!- MoALTz [~no@78-11-247-26.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:41 | |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:41 | |
| -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has quit [Quit: Newyorkadam] | 00:46 | |
| -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 00:49 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@223.176.188.41] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:56 | |
| -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:56 | |
| -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:59 | |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 01:01 | |
| -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] | 01:01 | |
| -!- cdecker [~cdecker@184.68.38.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 01:04 | |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 01:07 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 01:19 | |
| -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 01:21 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 01:22 | |
| -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 01:23 | |
| -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@172.56.17.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 01:40 | |
| -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 01:41 | |
| -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 01:57 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 02:01 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 02:03 | |
| -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 02:30 | |
| -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Quit: null] | 02:52 | |
| -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 02:52 | |
| -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 03:14 | |
| -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@185pc230.sshunet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 03:58 | |
| -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@185pc230.sshunet.nl] has quit [Changing host] | 03:58 | |
| -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 03:58 | |
| -!- NoobQuark [~NoobQuark@122.168.206.11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 04:12 | |
| -!- NoobQuark [~NoobQuark@122.168.206.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 04:14 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@223.176.188.41] has quit [Quit: Bye] | 04:25 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 04:25 | |
| -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@adsl-71-129-112-198.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:06 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has quit [Quit: Bye] | 05:09 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:09 | |
| -!- edvorg- [~edvorg@14.169.89.229] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:13 | |
| -!- edvorg- is now known as edvorg | 05:13 | |
| -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:16 | |
| -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.89.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 05:27 | |
| -!- crossing-styx [~crossing-@user173.77-105-202.netatonce.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:30 | |
| -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] | 05:30 | |
| -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:45 | |
| -!- kang0 [~skang404@223.176.164.41] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:46 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 05:46 | |
| -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:00 | |
| -!- crossing-styx [~crossing-@user173.77-105-202.netatonce.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 06:20 | |
| -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 06:27 | |
| -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-251-52.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 06:27 | |
| -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-251-52.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:28 | |
| -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:28 | |
| -!- nooblord [~Nooblord@190.8.88.169] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:33 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 06:35 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:37 | |
| -!- Starduster [~SD@unaffiliated/starduster] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 06:41 | |
| -!- crowleyman [~crowleyma@46.250.5.217.pool.breezein.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:54 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 06:57 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:59 | |
| -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-40-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:31 | |
| -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:39 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:40 | |
| -!- crowleyman [~crowleyma@46.250.5.217.pool.breezein.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] | 07:43 | |
| -!- crossing-styx [~crossing-@user173.77-105-202.netatonce.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:56 | |
| -!- crossing-styx [~crossing-@user173.77-105-202.netatonce.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 07:57 | |
| -!- kang0 [~skang404@223.176.164.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 08:01 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@223.176.164.41] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 08:02 | |
| -!- edvorg [~edvorg@113.185.28.207] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 08:21 | |
| -!- edvorg [~edvorg@113.185.28.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 08:25 | |
| -!- edvorg [~edvorg@113.185.28.207] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 08:27 | |
| -!- ManfredMacx [~hyperion@93-139-11-59.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 08:28 | |
| -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 08:28 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 08:30 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@223.176.164.41] has quit [Quit: Bye] | 08:48 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 08:49 | |
| -!- edvorg [~edvorg@113.185.28.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 08:54 | |
| -!- wangchun [~wangchun@li414-193.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] | 09:12 | |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tmYyj3dK7U | 09:20 |
|---|---|---|
| yoleaux | Computing class polynomials with the Chinese Remainder Theorem - YouTube | 09:20 |
| -!- edvorg [~edvorg@113.185.28.207] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 09:21 | |
| -!- bitcoin-wizards6 [45f91210@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.249.18.16] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 09:35 | |
| -!- edvorg [~edvorg@113.185.28.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 09:43 | |
| -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.186.70.91] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 09:47 | |
| -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 09:51 | |
| -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 09:51 | |
| -!- nooblord [~Nooblord@190.8.88.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 10:02 | |
| -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 10:05 | |
| -!- ManfredMacx [~hyperion@93-139-11-59.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 10:17 | |
| -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 11:08 | |
| -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 11:08 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has quit [Quit: Bye] | 11:09 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 11:09 | |
| -!- droark [~droark@c-24-22-36-12.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Later.] | 11:12 | |
| -!- Mazz_ [~mazznilla@unaffiliated/mazznilla] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 11:27 | |
| -!- Mazz_ [~mazznilla@unaffiliated/mazznilla] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 11:30 | |
| -!- molz [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 11:36 | |
| -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 11:38 | |
| -!- droark [~droark@c-24-22-36-12.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 11:40 | |
| -!- droark [~droark@c-24-22-36-12.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 11:40 | |
| -!- droark [~droark@c-24-22-36-12.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 11:43 | |
| -!- Davasny [~quassel@78-11-193-195.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 11:44 | |
| -!- Starduster [~SD@unaffiliated/starduster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 12:12 | |
| -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 12:33 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 12:39 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 12:41 | |
| -!- JackH [~Jack@79-73-191-94.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 12:47 | |
| -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] | 12:50 | |
| -!- nullfxn [~nullFxn@107-147-108-164.res.bhn.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 12:50 | |
| -!- JackH [~Jack@79-73-191-94.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 12:53 | |
| -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 12:58 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has quit [Quit: Bye] | 13:03 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:03 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has quit [Quit: Bye] | 13:10 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:10 | |
| -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 13:32 | |
| -!- afk11 [~afk11@79.97.105.226] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:33 | |
| -!- afk11 [~afk11@79.97.105.226] has quit [Changing host] | 13:33 | |
| -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:33 | |
| -!- nikivi [~nikivi@dhcp-077-250-172-150.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:44 | |
| -!- nikivi [~nikivi@dhcp-077-250-172-150.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: zzz] | 14:03 | |
| -!- nikivi [~nikivi@dhcp-077-250-172-150.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 14:04 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:27 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 14:29 | |
| -!- nikivi [~nikivi@dhcp-077-250-172-150.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: irc] | 14:33 | |
| -!- nullfxn [~nullFxn@107-147-108-164.res.bhn.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] | 14:40 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:42 | |
| -!- MoALTz [~no@78-11-247-26.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 14:59 | |
| -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Quit: null] | 15:00 | |
| -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 15:02 | |
| -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 15:05 | |
| -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 | 15:05 | |
| -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 15:10 | |
| -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 15:18 | |
| -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 15:28 | |
| -!- Davasny [~quassel@78-11-193-195.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 15:57 | |
| -!- qwebirc676484 [45f91210@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.249.18.16] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 16:02 | |
| -!- bitcoin-wizards6 [45f91210@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.249.18.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 16:02 | |
| -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 16:10 | |
| -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] | 16:10 | |
| -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 16:12 | |
| -!- CrazyTruthYakDDS [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-flvbpgxeddsduphf] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 16:41 | |
| -!- qwebirc676484 [45f91210@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.249.18.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 16:44 | |
| -!- pavel_ [~paveljani@79-98-72-73.sys-data.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 16:53 | |
| -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 16:55 | |
| -!- lvns [~lvns@pool-100-38-50-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 17:03 | |
| dgenr8 | SPV what proofs? SPV candy-corn proofs? SPV is a technique, not a statement. | 17:32 |
| -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@adsl-71-129-112-198.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 17:34 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:55 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 17:57 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 18:06 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 18:08 | |
| -!- gsdgdfs [~Trans@modemcable017.144-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 18:14 | |
| -!- Transisto2 [~Trans@modemcable017.144-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 18:16 | |
| -!- Transisto2 [~Trans@modemcable017.144-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 18:17 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 18:17 | |
| -!- gsdgdfs [~Trans@modemcable017.144-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 18:18 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 18:19 | |
| -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] | 18:35 | |
| Taek | e0, andytoshi, other: if we were to substantially reduce the maximum transaction size, at what point does it become problematic for TumbleBit/MimbleWimble/other? | 18:37 |
| Taek | waxwing: what about for joinmarket? | 18:38 |
| Taek | fluffypony: what about for Monero? I know it's a different blockchain but still useful to know. | 18:44 |
| kanzure | you want smaller than schnorr signatures? | 18:46 |
| -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 18:47 | |
| Taek | no but for Jute it makes some things a lot easier if I can cap the block size at 10kb or even 5kb. I'm not certain how many things get ruined by that limit though | 18:52 |
| Taek | there's a tradoff between confirmation time, throughput speed limit, and block size. | 18:52 |
| Taek | High throughput speed limit = high block size + low confirmation time | 18:53 |
| Taek | low throughput speed limit = low block size + low confirmation time || high block size + high confirmation time | 18:53 |
| katu | Taek: can speak only for joinmarket, not much would change there. the participant pool size is limited roughly to hundreds, after that the likelyhood of one bailing is getting too high. | 18:55 |
| kanzure | Taek: if you strip away most of the features, such as reducing the number of transaction types to one, you could probably get away with a single signature per block and some low-bit account representation or something.. | 18:57 |
| Taek | kanzure: hopefully won't need to go that far, but I guess for a lot of things schnorr combining gets you a lot of wiggle room. | 18:58 |
| Taek | I'm not sure that would apply to MW though, since that uses a different type of cryptography | 18:59 |
| katu | why force the block size btw, to enforce tree fanout? | 19:00 |
| katu | s/tree/dag/ | 19:01 |
| Taek | Security in Jute benefits *substantially* from a very small block time. 1 second is okay, but things don't get really friendly until like 0.5 seconds | 19:01 |
| Taek | (will be sharing full writeup tonight - just 1 more paragraph to touch up) | 19:02 |
| Taek | At a 1 second block time, 10kb blocks means 6MB every 10 minutes | 19:02 |
| Taek | Which, I think is pretty reasonable given that Jute gives you a lot of scalability benefits | 19:02 |
| Taek | But it's 12MB if you drop to a 0.5 second block time, or 24MB if you decide that you want both a 0.5 second block time and 20kb blocks | 19:03 |
| Taek | and that's probably too much | 19:03 |
| katu | still cant really figure out why hard caps would be of consequences wrt block time (other than verify latencies), but will wait for the writeup. | 19:03 |
| Taek | you don't want an attacker to be able to start throwing 1MB blocks at the network every 5 seconds, most full nodes would not be able to keep up. That I think is the only reason. | 19:04 |
| -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 19:05 | |
| katu | these blocks have equal chance of confirming like anything else, dont they? | 19:05 |
| Taek | as long as all nodes could keep up with the throughput, their probability of confirming would be 100% | 19:06 |
| katu | in that case, dos is prevented by perbyte fees. | 19:06 |
| Taek | that's potentially an option | 19:06 |
| Taek | I also don't think it would be too difficult to have a difficulty-based-on-blocksize modification, which would be really beneficial for enthusiests who might want to mine all of their own transactions | 19:06 |
| Taek | I think it would be reasonable that a 500 byte txn could be mined by a $200 miner within an hour | 19:07 |
| Taek | solo-mining, no pool necessary! | 19:07 |
| katu | just take long term mean average and allow +5% on top of that | 19:07 |
| katu | not sure who wrote that proposal, but i like the natural simplicity of it | 19:08 |
| sipa | long term mean is pretty dangerous | 19:08 |
| sipa | it allows miners to stuff their own blocks to pumo up the size | 19:08 |
| katu | sipa: costs fees | 19:14 |
| katu | sipa: also, only for the duration of the pool actually doing it. once they stop, the average returns to normal. | 19:14 |
| Taek | what decides how high the fees are? | 19:15 |
| katu | this operates on the assumption that mempool has always something on offer. fee cost = they have to sacrifice legit mempool txes in favor of their phony ones. | 19:15 |
| Taek | ah | 19:15 |
| Taek | it's just a one-time cost though right? Once you've pushed the average up you've now got room for the mempool txns and for your own fluff? | 19:16 |
| Taek | I guess it depends on your hashrate | 19:16 |
| katu | Taek: the average is there to establish the cutoff - which is necessary for fee market. | 19:17 |
| katu | balooning the capacity artificially indeed bottoms the price level of fee market, but costs you fee opportunity. | 19:17 |
| sipa | i disagree with the idea that miners should have any influence at all on maximum throughput | 19:19 |
| sipa | they are exactly the ones that benefit from it | 19:19 |
| katu | indeed | 19:19 |
| katu | if they form cartel, they can extort fees | 19:20 |
| sipa | the limits should be set by what the technology can deal with, and nothing else | 19:20 |
| katu | but then again, if they form cartel, dont we have bigger problems at hand? | 19:20 |
| sipa | larger blocks give extra opportunity for larger cartels | 19:20 |
| sipa | so they not only provide a means for higher income at the cost of every othet validation node, they also give an extra incentive to cartelize, as larger blocks can be used to compete smaller players out of the market | 19:21 |
| katu | sipa: i agree with current pool situation, dynamically adjusted fees and market is just not feasible | 19:21 |
| katu | but there will be increasing pressure for this as mining reward drops | 19:21 |
| sipa | maybe, the dynamics of that aren't entirely clear to me | 19:22 |
| sipa | but to me, capacity limits are there as means for fully validating nodes (seen as the ones who decide the consensus rules) to limit the advantage larger miners can have over smaller ones, as it is in their best interest to not incentivize centralization of mining | 19:23 |
| sipa | (that's not the only reason of course, another is to prevent resource requirememts to grow beyond what these full nodes themselves can deal with) | 19:24 |
| katu | nod. though jute/braid style proposals this seems to be alleviated a bit (the david vs golliath problem, but not necessarily the race to the bottom and everyone taking bigger bite than they can swallow in market race) | 19:30 |
| katu | though *in | 19:31 |
| -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zwtwnjngrecjcegp] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 19:36 | |
| -!- CrazyTruthYakDDS [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-flvbpgxeddsduphf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 19:38 | |
| kanzure | "denial-of-service is prevented by per byte fees" well if you mean as a replacement for block size, i think that would mean a moving transaction fee floor minimum enforced by consensus rules? | 19:48 |
| kanzure | no, nevermind. i haven't factored in anything from the dynamic validation cost target work. | 19:48 |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 20:15 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 20:17 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 20:18 | |
| -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 20:29 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 21:01 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 21:03 | |
| -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-40-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 21:04 | |
| -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 21:04 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 21:16 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 21:18 | |
| -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-upchjwuqyoijfnjx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 21:27 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 21:31 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 21:33 | |
| -!- Logicwax [~Logicwax@c-76-126-174-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 21:34 | |
| -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 21:35 | |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 21:35 | |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 21:40 | |
| -!- Logicwax [~Logicwax@c-76-126-174-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 21:43 | |
| -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 21:44 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 21:47 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 21:56 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 22:16 | |
| -!- skang404 [~skang404@27.6.192.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 22:16 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 22:18 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 22:30 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 22:32 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 22:32 | |
| -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 22:36 | |
| -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.186.70.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 22:48 | |
| -!- pavel_ [~paveljani@79-98-72-73.sys-data.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 23:06 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:12 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:14 | |
| -!- lvns [~lvns@pool-100-38-50-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:17 | |
| -!- lvns [~lvns@pool-100-38-50-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:18 | |
| -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@n218250011174.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:21 | |
| -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@n218250011174.netvigator.com] has quit [Client Quit] | 23:21 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:23 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:25 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 23:39 | |
| -!- assder [d4555899@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.85.88.153] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:41 | |
| -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.161.50.223] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:43 | |
| -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:48b1:694a:502c:67fc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:47 | |
| Taek | drat | 23:48 |
| Taek | I realized that my algorithm for getting a total ordering on a graph doesn't yield the required safety properties | 23:49 |
| -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-afzgyjniqsswprmc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:49 | |
| Taek | :< disappointing | 23:49 |
| Taek | Bitcoin provides a safety property such that for any block with N confirmations, that block cannot be invalidated without the introduction of at least N additional blocks | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Sun Sep 18 00:00:00 2016 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!