--- Log opened Thu Nov 01 00:00:54 2018 00:12 < mryandao> are these on different hosts? 00:26 < notmike> Yes. My issue was a bad port forward, and now it's fixed. 00:26 < notmike> The other host still isn't accepting incoming connections and has a strange routing arrangement that I suspect. 00:27 < notmike> In a separate note, where is the default wallet file generated for c-lightning, say I just run it from within the repo 01:40 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #c-lightning 01:41 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 01:56 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #c-lightning 02:57 -!- notmike [uid209547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ousmfkmmqxnavddh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:39 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 03:51 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #c-lightning 04:50 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:17 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #c-lightning 05:41 -!- aj [aj@cerulean.erisian.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:53 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 06:58 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #c-lightning 07:08 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has joined #c-lightning 07:35 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #c-lightning 07:54 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #c-lightning 10:48 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-creuhrhnnyemotqo] has joined #c-lightning 10:50 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] annnd we're back online! 11:14 -!- jasan [~jasan@adsl-dyn64.78-98-46.t-com.sk] has joined #c-lightning 11:20 -!- jasan [~jasan@adsl-dyn64.78-98-46.t-com.sk] has quit [Quit: jasan] 11:38 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41 -!- notmike [uid209547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phluamtyrccypgnp] has joined #c-lightning 11:48 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-181-146-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@080-250-075-178-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #c-lightning 14:14 -!- ken2812221_ [~ken281222@110.50.135.178] has joined #c-lightning 14:17 -!- ken2812221 [~ken281222@110.50.135.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:28 <@cdecker> notmike: it's in $HOME/.lightning :-) 15:29 < notmike> What's it called? I had a power outage and thought I was rek'd but apparently funds are still safu. 15:29 < notmike> However there's no wallet.anyting in $HOME/.lightning that I can discern 15:29 < molz> i hope rusty will do this for real! :D https://twitter.com/rusty_twit/status/1054984791320342528 15:34 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35 -!- cubancorona [cubancoron@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/cubancorona] has joined #c-lightning 15:37 <@cdecker> notmike: there are 2 important files in there: hsm_secret and lightningd.sqlite3 15:37 < notmike> Ok, yes, those I have 15:37 <@cdecker> hsm_secret is the root seed for all secrets and should be read-only, the DB actually tracks all state (including channels and on-chain funds) 15:38 <@cdecker> s/should/could/ 15:39 < notmike> Interesting, so the DB is unique to a node's channels? 15:45 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:59 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #c-lightning 16:09 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has joined #c-lightning 16:21 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #c-lightning 16:26 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:26 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #c-lightning 16:43 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #c-lightning 17:30 < notmike> Thank you cdecker! 17:42 -!- molz [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:42 -!- molz [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #c-lightning 17:45 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #c-lightning 18:03 -!- bitdex_ [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #c-lightning 18:04 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:48 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #c-lightning 19:38 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] I'm hoping someone will write a definitive guide for backing up and restoring c-lightning seed and DB. Apparently, there's risks when restoring such that broadcasting an old state can cause the loss of funds. I don't really understand how to be safe on lightning. 19:41 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] c-lightning has seed? 19:49 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] @tak afaik currently c-lightning doesn't require a pw and doesn't have a recovery seed, so for me i just do basic security like firewall and stuff and i wouldn't put too much money in a node. I've seen some people talk about doing constant backup but to me it's still risky because we don't know if the last state is safe to run 19:52 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] I'm just worried because I've had hard drives crash and die on me all the time. I'd be disappointed about losing funds even if it was only a small amount. 19:52 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] oh absolutely, i understand how you feel 19:53 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] Maybe I need to build some type of node proxy that can monitor/record the last state and tell me if it's safe to restore from a given backup or not. 19:53 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] do you run your node on a rpi? 19:54 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] what is rpi? 19:54 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] raspberry pi 19:54 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] nope, runs on a server 19:55 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] nothing is guaranteed but i've seen so many bad lucks with those rpis 19:56 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] yeah they're not very reliable 19:56 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] and neither are SD cards 19:57 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] my server runs a node to provide payment processing for my online marketplace 19:58 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] so i need to open sufficiently sized channels, but it would be tragic if the disk crashed 19:59 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] do you have any mirroring? 19:59 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] ie. RAID-1 19:59 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] i don't think so but wouldn't it be the same thing? 20:00 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] same as what 20:00 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] same as having the latest DB state backed up 20:00 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] mirroring means the data is written simultaneously to both (or how many you want) disks 20:01 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] well it depends on how quickly your backup solution works :p 20:01 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] like if it's set to backup every minute, that might not be good enough 20:01 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] well assuming real-time backups, every byte changed is backed up and nothing is lost 20:02 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] can we do this in real-time, @daniel? 20:03 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] mirroring should be as real-time as it can get, AFAIK 20:03 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] how often does the c-lightning DB change anyways? 20:03 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] and for lightning, can we do it? 20:05 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] sure why not 20:05 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] depending on your hardware you can just hot-swap out the failing drive too without any interruption 20:06 < blockstream_bot> [adam3us, Blockstream] drbd is fun 20:07 < blockstream_bot> [adam3us, Blockstream] near real-time synced block-device with a master and a read-only fail-over mirror put a log-recovered file system on top of it. 20:08 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] i wish never losing funds was as easy as never losing your private key (or master seed) as it is with regular bitcoin 20:08 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] this whole DB thing seems so fragile 20:09 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] maybe we can replace the DB with a blockchain ;) 20:09 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] well other things can happen that can cause fund loss, like pasting in the wrong address, typoing the transaction amount, overpaying fees, etc 20:09 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] yep, but a disk crash seems quite predictable 20:09 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] forgetting your wallet encryption password 20:10 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] i'm just saying non-human error/failure 20:10 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] oh absolutely, which is why you should backup properly 20:10 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] which is much harder, compared to just securing some private keys offline 20:11 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] backup needs to be near real-time like you said, and the average lightning node user may not want to set that all up 20:12 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] i guess that's the trade-off for having off-chain real-time transactions 20:12 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] they're different problems. one is long term storage -- avoiding physical degradation of your backup medium, having multiple copies in geo-diverse locations, etc. versus real-time hot backup stuff. 20:13 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] well eltoo should help i think 20:14 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] hmm interesting ok 20:15 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] well currently LND and Eclair have recovery system for onchain wallets, and someone on lnd slack just told me raid is never a good backup system 20:16 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] i wonder how hard it would be to swap the lightning DB with a galera multi-master cluster in different geos 20:16 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] and lnd will soon have db hooks so that you can keep an external channel database updated. 20:16 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] RAID is good for quick fail-overs 20:16 < blockstream_bot> [Daniel Williams, Blockstream] which is good for running a lightning node, i suppose :) 20:16 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] yea i guess 20:17 < blockstream_bot> [moli, Blockstream] but lnd is having this on the list: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/issues/1626 20:23 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] i'm going to try this https://github.com/axkibe/lsyncd 20:42 -!- aj [aj@cerulean.erisian.com.au] has joined #c-lightning 20:52 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] seems to be working pretty well for me now, sync delay is pretty small 20:59 < notmike> [notmike, Blockstream] I think maybe we made a huge error forcing Bitcoin into the segwit box. 21:04 < blockstream_bot> [Tim Ho, Blockstream] why 21:08 -!- cubancorona2 [cubancoron@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/cubancorona] has joined #c-lightning 21:08 -!- bitdex_ [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08 -!- bitdex_ [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #c-lightning 21:09 -!- cubancorona [cubancoron@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/cubancorona] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-creuhrhnnyemotqo] has left #c-lightning [] 21:10 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-creuhrhnnyemotqo] has joined #c-lightning 21:26 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:27 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has joined #c-lightning 21:31 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #c-lightning 21:48 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #c-lightning 21:50 -!- conman [~con@2001:44b8:4154:d801:cd93:fa7d:88ff:158c] has left #c-lightning ["Konversation terminated!"] 22:12 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #c-lightning 22:17 -!- cubancorona2 [cubancoron@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/cubancorona] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 22:38 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #c-lightning 22:45 -!- grubles_ [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #c-lightning 22:47 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:08 -!- gwillen [~gwillen@unaffiliated/gwillen] has joined #c-lightning 23:18 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:25 < notmike> I'm just surprised someone is finally willing to admit that's what we did. 23:31 -!- Victor_sueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #c-lightning 23:31 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50 < gwillen> this seems extremely offtopic. 23:53 < notmike> [notmike, Blockstream] I agree --- Log closed Fri Nov 02 00:00:54 2018